Author Topic: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...  (Read 106577 times)

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Offline doddy3988

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #240 on: May 10, 2008, 12:39:42 PM »
Finally i found this discussion. This is pretty much my last hope. Is there any way I could get this book? I have tried every library in Romania, every site (even e-bay or amazon, but I can't pay, cause I don't have a credit card at a international bank, plus I can't really afford the sending taxes.). I have found some other Romanovs books, but i was so dissapointed. I'm asking desperatelly again: Is there any way I could read the book online? Or is there anyway someone could send it to me? For the last 3 months I have tried everything. Is so frustrating to want to read a book, but to also find yourself in the impossibility of doing it. My email adress is doddy3988@yahoo.com. Any information is valuable to me. Thank you so much ( excuse my english)

Offline Annie

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #241 on: May 16, 2008, 01:20:12 PM »
I finally have a copy in my hands, thanks to an out of town library! I haven't read it yet, but just glancing through the beginning of it some things jumped right out at me that I never knew before!

1. it's dedicated to Peter Kurth

2. Peter Kurth wrote the introduction

3. in the 'cast of characters' list, the death dates for Anastasia and Alexei are omitted, all others in the IF carry the death date of 1918.

so, naturally, these things do nothing to change my previously held opinion on its ties to AA;)

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #242 on: May 16, 2008, 01:31:46 PM »
2. Peter Kurth wrote the introduction

What does he say in the intro?

Offline Louis_Charles

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #243 on: May 16, 2008, 01:53:00 PM »
2. Peter Kurth wrote the introduction

What does he say in the intro?

"Don't let anyone know about the Torch, or the jig will be up."
"Simon --- Classy AND Compassionate!"
   
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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #244 on: May 16, 2008, 01:54:17 PM »
2. Peter Kurth wrote the introduction

What does he say in the intro?

"Don't let anyone know about the Torch, or the jig will be up."

Does Kurth mention anything about AA in the intro or just makes general comments about the Romanovs?

Offline Louis_Charles

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #245 on: May 16, 2008, 02:02:18 PM »
He didn't write the "Introduction", he wrote the "Foreword". This isn't just semantics, as there is a proper "Introduction".

Kurth wrote:

"I still think otherwise, and am known in the trenches either as Anna Anderson's "tireless champion" or --- more often --- as some kind of nut on this story. In saying this, I salute Greg and Penny's courage in asking me aboard, but imply nothing about the independence of their work."

The Foreword is two and one-half pages. He allows for the possibility that it was either Marie's or Anastasia's body that was found in the main grave, which is still open to dispute as far as I know.  He does not think that the other bones will ever be uncovered as of the date he wrote the foreword. There is nothing in his writing to support the thesis that Greg King and Penny Wilson have produced support for Anna Anderson's claim --- indeed, his tone about his own support seems to be a resignation to the fact that most people disagree with him.

As for the lack of death dates for Alexei and Anastasia (I assume they side with the American forensic experts as to the identity of the body in the grave as Marie, since she is assigned a 1918 date of death), they do not list dates, but do add "the body has not been found." Which was true at the time of publication (2003). I have a family tree that puts question marks after all of their names in regard to date of death; it was devised in 1967, and none of the bodies had been found. So I'm not sure that particularly is indicative of anything except caution.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2008, 02:11:34 PM by Louis_Charles »
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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #246 on: May 16, 2008, 02:08:49 PM »
Thanks.

Offline Louis_Charles

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Offline Annie

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #248 on: May 16, 2008, 02:13:17 PM »
2. Peter Kurth wrote the introduction

What does he say in the intro?

I have to keep it at 20% so I don't get sued, I think, so I'll pick out the best parts:

Foreward

When Greg King and Penny Wilson asked me to write a short forward for this book, I said I'd be honored. This statement conceals more than it looks. After 30 years' involvement in what I happily call the Romanov Wars, I find myself still entrenched among these rebels- if anything, somewhat further to the left. In 1983, my first book "Riddle of AA" argued for a complete revision of thinking about the most famous "Anastasia" claimant...I pled her case again briefly in "Tsar", even though, by that time, DNA testing on Mrs. Anderson's remains had seemed to prove conclusively that she was a fraud. I still think otherwise, and am known in the trenches either as AA"s 'tireless champion" or- even more often- as some kind of nut on this story.

In saying this, I salute Greg and Penny's courage in asking me aboard...they know that they've entered both a quagmire and a minefield, and that their account of the last days and murder of the Russian IF will find objection in many quarters..When I began researching the story seriously in 1970, the accepted version of the death of the Romanovs had hardened into stone..

(..he goes onto explain the details..says how books 'knocked holes' in the Sokolov report..questions the ID of the missing GD...expresses questions about the people who found and identified the bones from the 1991 grave...)

In conclusion:

This is the subject of the book you're about to read, the first comprehensive account of the Romanov murders to appear since their bones were walle dup in 1998...all but two of them, that is. I am indeed a "nut" on this story, and am confident in predicting that many of you will be, too, when you discover what follows.


The dedication page reads:

To Peter Kurth

Loyalty to petrified opinions never yet broke the chain or freed a human soul in this world- and never will.
-Mark Twain

 

Offline Annie

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #249 on: May 16, 2008, 02:17:10 PM »

As for the lack of death dates for Alexei and Anastasia (I assume they side with the American forensic experts as to the identity of the body in the grave as Marie, since she is assigned a 1918 date of death), they do not list dates, but do add "the body has not been found." Which was true at the time of publication (2003). I have a family tree that puts question marks after all of their names in regard to date of death; it was devised in 1967, and none of the bodies had been found. So I'm not sure that particularly is indicative of anything except caution.

Do you really believe that, or are you just trying to cover for them? Caution? Oh come on now none of us are that naive.

Offline Louis_Charles

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #250 on: May 16, 2008, 02:19:00 PM »
2. Peter Kurth wrote the introduction

What does he say in the intro?

I have to keep it at 20% so I don't get sued, I think, so I'll pick out the best parts:

Foreward

When Greg King and Penny Wilson asked me to write a short forward for this book, I said I'd be honored. This statement conceals more than it looks. After 30 years' involvement in what I happily call the Romanov Wars, I find myself still entrenched among these rebels- if anything, somewhat further to the left. In 1983, my first book "Riddle of AA" argued for a complete revision of thinking about the most famous "Anastasia" claimant...I pled her case again briefly in "Tsar", even though, by that time, DNA testing on Mrs. Anderson's remains had seemed to prove conclusively that she was a fraud. I still think otherwise, and am known in the trenches either as AA"s 'tireless champion" or- even more often- as some kind of nut on this story.

In saying this, I salute Greg and Penny's courage in asking me aboard...they know that they've entered both a quagmire and a minefield, and that their account of the last days and murder of the Russian IF will find objection in many quarters..When I began researching the story seriously in 1970, the accepted version of the death of the Romanovs had hardened into stone..

(..he goes onto explain the details..says how books 'knocked holes' in the Sokolov report..questions the ID of the missing GD...expresses questions about the people who found and identified the bones from the 1991 grave...)

In conclusion:

This is the subject of the book you're about to read, the first comprehensive account of the Romanov murders to appear since their bones were walle dup in 1998...all but two of them, that is. I am indeed a "nut" on this story, and am confident in predicting that many of you will be, too, when you discover what follows.


The dedication page reads:

To Peter Kurth

Loyalty to petrified opinions never yet broke the chain or freed a human soul in this world- and never will.
-Mark Twain

 

The quotation above deliberately (and dishonestly) leaves out the salient phrase "but imply nothing about the independence of their work" after the word "aboard".

.

"Simon --- Classy AND Compassionate!"
   
"The road to enlightenment is long and difficult, so take snacks and a magazine."

Offline Louis_Charles

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #251 on: May 16, 2008, 02:24:04 PM »
Annie,

Do I think that it was prudent to avoid assigning a death date for Alexei and Anastasia failing the forensic evidence that established it as a certainty for the rest of the family? Yes.

If you start from the premise that I genuinely believe what I post, you can spare yourself the need to address me. If you would like to avoid me, which is your professed aim, is it not?

Simon

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"The road to enlightenment is long and difficult, so take snacks and a magazine."

Offline Tsarfan

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #252 on: May 16, 2008, 02:25:23 PM »
3. in the 'cast of characters' list, the death dates for Anastasia and Alexei are omitted, all others in the IF carry the death date of 1918.

so, naturally, these things do nothing to change my previously held opinion on its ties to AA;)

As usual, Annie, you're going way  beyond the evidence in making one of your claims.

At the time the book was written, only five imperial bodies had been found.  It is convention to leave a death date unspecified if circumstances indicate a body is missing in circumstances that make the time and place of death uncertain.  Thinking seven imperials to have been executed and finding only five bodies would be such a circumstance.  It is the convention that has been observed in citing the death dates of other missing royals, such as Louis XVII, although most think he died or was killed in prison in 1795 or thereabouts.

You gloss over the fact that King and Wilson left the death date blank for Alexei, too.  Yet no one has ever accused them of believing in any of the Alexei imposters.  In fact, the most ardent supporter of Heino Tammet's claim to be Alexis frequents some forums hosted by King and Wilson, and they partake of absolutely none of his nonsense.

The bottom line remains -- as it always had -- that with an entire book at their disposal to lay out their views in considerable detail, neither King nor Wilson gave the slightest indication anywhere  in FOTR that they thought Anna Anderson was Anastasia.  As has been pointed out to you endlessly (and apparently uselessly), Anna Anderson is in no way mentioned in FOTR, either directly or obliquely.

Yet you continue to insist they wrote an entire book for the express purpose of making an argument that they somehow overlooked actually making.

Given the way you process real data, I'm surprised you are not Heino Tammet's biggest supporter.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2008, 02:36:54 PM by Tsarfan »

Offline Annie

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #253 on: May 16, 2008, 03:21:35 PM »
Simon accuses:

Quote
The quotation above deliberately (and dishonestly) leaves out the salient phrase "but imply nothing about the independence of their work" after the word "aboard".

I expected you'd get paranoid and say something like that. The reason I skipped things is because I was trying to keep under 20% copying. I knew there would be things you'd claim I left out on purpose, and you'd post them, okay, that's your 20% not mine! Maybe tsarfan can do the rest and then we'll have the whole thing! Besides, the whole book is readily available for anyone who wants to see it for themselves (unless you live in Romania, as one poster has informed us)

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Questions/comments for the authors of THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS...
« Reply #254 on: May 16, 2008, 03:32:10 PM »
I was trying to keep under 20% copying.

What is this 20% thing, is it for real?

P.S. I slept right through the copyright part of the classes in library school ;-)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2008, 03:36:07 PM by Helen_A »