The Yusupovs and the Romanovs' relationship

[ashanti01]

I think that is suppose to be Ella...but I cant be sure the face is covered in shadows but the outline does resemble both Alix and Ella.

But then again the woman does have a fuller figure like Alix had in her later years...I have to say Alix but I could be wrong

[Annie]

Interesting find! I wonder which one it is? I would guess Ella since she and Zenaida were friends, but we can't know for sure. Who is the little boy in the sailor suit? Is this one of the famous mushroom hunts that Felix, Dmitri, Anna Vyrubova and others participated in? I'd love to see a group pic of all of them as kids! KR's kids and Sophie Buxeovedon were also their playmates.

[Annie]

I think that once Ella became a nun, she and Zenaida were less friendly. Zenaida had lost her party girl friend. But they were still together much later, working against Rasputin, both getting shunned by Alix.

I too was upset to see that 'celebrated sister' comment, but on one of the threads here, it's been so long I forgot, we discussed this and someone came to the conclusion that Ella is NOT the 'sister' being discussed in this letter, as she was in Moscow at the time. I hope it wasn't her!

[ashanti01]

If Zinaida lost her "party" friend in 1905, it may have caused a short distance between them but not for long. In 1908 when Zenaida's oldest son and heir Nicholas died, she too withdrew from the social scene. I believe I read Ella even came to stay with the fragile Zinaida who was suffering from a nervous break down. I could be wrong, but I'm positive I read that in G. King's book " The Man who Killed Rasputin."

[dp5486]

Is it true that the Dowager Empress's Dr. Kostrisky brought a letter to Felix's mother from Alexandra stating that she should have listened to her?

I read it in Felix's memoirs and it did not seem like something Alexandra would have done.

Thanks!

[ConstanceMarie]

Is it true that the Dowager Empress's Dr. Kostrisky brought a letter to Felix's mother from Alexandra stating that she should have listened to her?

I read it in Felix's memoirs and it did not seem like something Alexandra would have done.

Thanks!

I don't know the doctor, but there was a story that the Yussupovs had the same family dentist as the IF and when he went to treat them in Tobolsk, he came back to say that the Tsar, not Alexandra, had said to 'tell Princess Yussupov she was right'. (presumably about Rasputin) and that if they had listened to her things might have turned out better.

And to Grandduchessella, Zenaida and Ella were great friends from the time Ella moved to Russia. They were very close, even best friends, and this is how Felix became close to her and considered her a second mother. If they had a rift later I think they worked it out.

[dp5486]

Thank you for that info. Dr. Kostrisky must have been very talented to have taken care of both the Dowager Empress and the Yussupov family.

It just seemed to me that Alexandra wouldn't say something like that and I guess I was right.

Thanks again!

[Valmont]

I think the reference in the letter was not ment for Ella.. This feud was discussed in another thraed.. It think it was Zenaida's ... Anyway... they did  had a feud for a while, but they remained friends for the rest of their lives...It was Zenaida who help Ella in her convertion to Orthodoxy and it was Ella who was with Zenaida when her son Nicholas died under the hand of Marina de Hayden's husband.. Both women were best friends in their time of splendour and glamour... Both  women  suffer great loses in their lives... and both women remained friends... until the end..

Arturo

[mitia]

It is indeed both stunning and puzzling that no photos exist ( as far as I know ) with NAOTMAA and the Youssoupoffs as there must have been a time when their relationship was not that " icy " ( I mean in the late 1890s early 1900s ). But it seems they would only met on unavoidable official occasions  ( and this far before the banishment of Felix after his invlovment in Raspoutine's murder. Is there any explanation to this state of things ?

This situation makes the match of Felix and Irina totally non-understandable to me. In his memoires, Felix says that the Tsar attended the wedding. Is this true ? Moreover, how could the Dowager Empress ever support such an unequal union ( even if we all know that MF was a dreadful match maker ) which was after all a morganatic marriage between a Princess of Blood Imperial and a russian count ? What or who convinced the Tsar to allow Felix to be styled " Prince Youssoupoff " after his marriage , though " Prince Felix the elder " was still alive ? Or was it just to avoid any kind of humiliation to Irina who was stepping down from Princess of Russia to plain countess whose husband's name was only in the third part of the almanach of Gotha ?

I have always found the whole thing so weird, totally beyond my understanding. If anybody can help by giving some explanations or point of view, thanks ever so much !

[Morecambrian]

THERE ARE PICTURES IN JACQUES FERRANDS BOOK ON THE YOUSSOUPOFF FAMILY.

[imperial angel]

That is interesting, for sure. I have never seen that book, is it rather rare? The Romanovs amd Yussupovs sometimes did not have much to do with each other, for whatever reason. The marriage of Irina amd Prince Felix was approved of from an official standpoint anyway. Irina, allthough she was the Tsar's niece was only a a more minor member of the Romanov Dynasty through her father. This perhaps influenced the approval of the marriage. As well, Irina had no succession rights as a female, so her descendants would not be members of the Romanov dynasty. A Grand Duke/Prince would never have been allowed to marry a Yusupov, but a Princess could.

[ashdean]

If you read a Fatal Passion you will read of Nicholas walking with his daughters from Livadia to Koriez to wish Zenaida Y  Happy Birthday ...

[imperial angel]

Yes, I read that book awhile ago and I must not remember that that was in it. I think the popular conception is that they had an icy relationship, but that was not always the case. Naturally, there would be photos of them together since they were from the same circles, however they were getting along.

[mitia]

As far as I can remember what Felix Felixovitch tells in the 2 volumes of his memoirs ( which I red a long time ago ) about Alexandra Feodorovna, it always sounds negative, unfair, I dare say badly mannered for someone reputadly belonging to the highest russian aristocracy.
 For example, if once again I remember well and from memory " the Empress had inherited this appalling taste for cheap british middle class pieces of furnitures " or " Contrarily to her wonderful sister Ella, the Empress never understood the genuine meaning of our Orthodox faith and She thought of herself as a deeply religious person whereas to speak the truth She was unable to go or think further than to the very surface of Orthodoxy "  etc...
Why does not Felix say OUR EMPRESS first of all ? Who does he think he is to judge someone else 's tastes ? Is his own taste for everything lavishly gilded or decorated a genuine example of BON GOUT or CLASSE ( meaning here touch of class ) ?

IMO the Romanov / Youssoupoff relationship must have become icy as soon as Felix decided NOT to take part in whatever way in WWI whereas most of the other Grand Dukes, Princes or members of high russian aristocracy were involved in the army, fights etc...This must have been  judged in these days as a total lack of patriotism. Same thing for Felix non involvement in the White Army later on to defend the Tsar or the utmost political principle of Tsarism.

Does anyone know why Felix refused to be involved in fighting for his Motherland, his Emperor and his political ideology in both cases ?

[ashdean]

Felix it must be remembered hated Alexandra..To him & indeed a large swathe of the nobility she was the catalyst for the downfall of Tsardom and with it their world with all  its trappings & splendours...Also Alexandra had banished his mother from court..& Zenaida, the beautiful,gracious spoiled darling of Russia's haute monde despite her withdrawl from society felt this very much....and her son even more...coupled with Ella's snub he cannot but be scathing of Alexandra in any shape or form...
Felix did not participate in the war effort for more than one reason..Firstly despite his (paternal)military heritage he was a never a soldier, that world was abhorrent to him..secondly he was naturally indolent and used the war effort ( converting varied family homes into hospitals etc) as a cover.The law allowing only sons exemption aided him for quite a while but by the later part of 1916...to keep up appearances Felix had had to enrol in a military training school....