Author Topic: The Tsarina's Daughter - Carolly Erickson  (Read 69136 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Proud_Olga

  • Guest
Re: The Tsarina's Daughter - Carolly Erickson
« Reply #75 on: January 18, 2009, 10:18:32 AM »
I don´t see a point in making all those violations to historical characters.

I agree.  In this case, one invents a character and does what he/she wants to do with instead of taking a real character. Then, there would be no problem.

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: The Tsarina's Daughter - Carolly Erickson
« Reply #76 on: January 18, 2009, 11:24:57 AM »
I believe that even a fiction - that fiction based on real person - should have enough respect for the one person it´s telling about!

I agree completely.
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

historyfan

  • Guest
Re: The Tsarina's Daughter - Carolly Erickson
« Reply #77 on: January 18, 2009, 09:07:30 PM »
I don´t see a point in making all those violations to historical characters.

I agree.  In this case, one invents a character and does what he/she wants to do with instead of taking a real character. Then, there would be no problem.

I second this.

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: The Tsarina's Daughter - Carolly Erickson
« Reply #78 on: February 07, 2009, 03:36:40 PM »
her dog is "Artipo" all the way through, where is "Ortino", who was a gift her first lover?


It's the same dog. Erickson must have used Lili Dehn's memoir as a source. Dehn refers to Tatiana's dog as "Artipo." Incidentally, I believe the dog's name was actually Ortipo. (More info in reply #120 here.)
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline Suzanne

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 295
    • View Profile
    • Carolyn Harris Royal Historian
Re: The Tsarina's Daughter - Carolly Erickson
« Reply #79 on: March 10, 2010, 12:05:01 PM »
I found this novel at a remainder book sale and it's one of the silliest historical novels I have ever read. It almost reads like a Romanov satire. The spelling of the dog's name is the least of the issues here. I found it really funny that Tatiana was continually sneaking out of the palace to spend time with the workers or have love affairs without anyone noticing - the entire nursery staff should have been sacked! (If a novelist wanted to have a scene where Tatiana has first hand experience of the plight of the poor, wouldn't it have made more sense to have her accompany her Aunt Ella on one of her missions around Moscow). It's hard to judge which scene is most outrageous - the tea party where Alexandra and her mother-in-law nearly have a physical fight, Tatiana learning how to target shoot then threatening Rasputin with her revolver,Tatiana helping her mother escape from a German mental asylum run by Dr. Freud, Tatiana consummating one of her fictional love affairs in a tent at Stavka (right next to her father's tent!), or best of all, Anastasia entering the Tobolsk annual pancake eating contest at the end of the novel in costume. The author's note states that the novel is a blend of fiction and reality, but I can't say I saw much reality! I did read the whole book though, just to see what ridiculous circumstance the fictional Tatiana would find herself in next!

rosieposie

  • Guest
Re: The Tsarina's Daughter - Carolly Erickson
« Reply #80 on: March 10, 2010, 02:14:25 PM »
I haven't read it as I"m a bit offhandish with Romanov fiction like the ghastly Anastasia Diary.  (At least the author did some research but forgotten what they read) anyways.  (Ironic I know considering I made my own fanfiction lol)

Has anyone thought of sending a letter to the author to complain about her work?   Perhaps they were inspired by that scene were Tatiana flashed her breasts to the guard in Nicholas and Alexandra.

It seems she is related to Lady Sybilla the woman who is trying to publish a "tribute" novel (her fanfiction) with The Twilight Saga.  Thinking that she has everyone right to deframe or make bogus out of character traits on historical figures. 

Perhaps I should write a novel of Hitler and Gobbels having an affair.   

Offline Suzanne

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 295
    • View Profile
    • Carolyn Harris Royal Historian
Re: The Tsarina's Daughter - Carolly Erickson
« Reply #81 on: March 10, 2010, 10:39:06 PM »
Well, if the author were arguing that her work was a factual biography, I would certainly see grounds for complaint but since she makes clear that it is a novel, I suppose that she can include plenty of silly fictional scenes. What I do not understand is why an author of historical fiction would completely ignore known historical circumstances and personalities when she must have predicted that part of her target audience would be people with a strong interest in and knowledge of Romanov history. I personally enjoy historical fiction where the author has done extensive research then fictionalized the unknown or debated aspects of the history or made deliberate changes for artistic effect. For example, the works of Jean Plaidy or Hilary Mantel's Wolf Hall. I really can't suspend my disbelief when I know, for example, that the guards in Tobolsk never allowed the Grand Duchesses off the Governor's House property for walks around town let alone permission to put on costumes and enter the local pancake eating contest. (Spoiler Alert: At the end of the novel, Anastasia eats so many pancakes, her family fears she will be sick during the subsequent escape attempt involving the fifth Circassian regiment led by Tatiana`s sexy lover Michael, the Brotherhood of St. John and Kaiser Wilhelm`s son Adalbert who happens to be in Tobolsk for a post treaty of Brest Litovsk German good will tour!)

Offline Kalafrana

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2912
    • View Profile
Re: The Tsarina's Daughter - Carolly Erickson
« Reply #82 on: March 11, 2010, 07:39:47 AM »
Oh good heavens!! Unless I'm seriously in need of a laugh I won't be reading this book.

As it happens I do try to write historical fiction and I also do some reviewing for a historical novels website. In my view a writer should work with the known facts and, when dealing with real people, stick to what is known about their actions and characters. Tatiana strikes me as the least likely of Nicholas and Alexandra's daughters either to 'break bounds' with clandestine visits to the poor (though she might make an officially sanctioned visit with her Aunt Ella), or to have any sort of pre-marital sexual relationship. That doesn't mean that I think the others would (though Olga would certainly be concerned about the poor and might just get as far as a visit of some sort) - just, 'No, no, Tatiana was far too much of a goody-goody'.

Somebody gave me a copy of 'The Romanov Prophecy' which is fairly bad but probably not as bad. There it's Alexei who escapes.

Ann

Offline Ilana

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 730
  • I love any info on VMH
    • View Profile
    • Queen Victoria's Granddaughters
Re: The Tsarina's Daughter - Carolly Erickson
« Reply #83 on: March 11, 2010, 10:51:48 AM »
I don't remember if I made a comment about this book, and don't want to go over the six pages of postings, but as someone who really stuck to the facts (except for fudging on conversation, emotions and a couple of facts) for THE ROYAL MOB, I remember being really annoyed with Carolly Erickson.  I've read some of her social history and enjoyed it immensely, and don't understand why she would write such an "off base" kind of novel.  She really should have fictionalized the characters completely, possibly using an aristocratic girl of the time as the heroine, who could have been involved in trying to rescue the family.  That at least would have made it more interesting and less laughable.
So long and thanks for all the fish

Offline TimM

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1940
    • View Profile
Re: The Tsarina's Daughter - Carolly Erickson
« Reply #84 on: September 25, 2010, 02:35:23 AM »
BOOK: The Tsarina’s Daughter

   AUTHOR: Carolly Erickson

   WARNING: The review contains plot spoilers.



   Before I start, I should point out this book is a work of historical fiction, a “what if?” scenario.  In this scenario, the Grand Duchess Tatiana Romanov, the second daughter of the last Czar of Russia, Nicholas II, and his wife, Alexandra Fedorovna, escaped being executed in the basement of the Ipatiev House in Ekaterinburg, Russia, on July 17, 1918.  She takes the name Daria Gradov, and ends up in the town Yellow Rain, Saskatchewan, where she lives to a ripe old age.  I know, the DNA tests proved that this never happened (this book was written in 2008, long after the tests proved that Tatiana didn’t survive), but, as I said, this is historical fiction.

   Anyway, the story opens in 1989, the Berlin Wall has just come down, and Tatiana, now in her early nineties, is the narrator.  She feels that now since Communism is on its way out, she can finally tell her story, and that sets up the main plot of the novel, how Tatiana lived in the Russian Empire and in the end, how she got away.  So we now flashback to those long ago days.

   Now, Tatiana has always been my favourite of the Grand Duchesses, and when someone at this board mentioned this book to me, I got curious.  So, the next time I was in my local Chapters (the Canadian Barnes And Noble), I grabbed a copy.  The poster didn’t seem too impressed with the book, but I had to see for myself.  Now that I have, I can say that I just couldn’t wrap my mind around so many historical  inaccuracies.  The average reader would probably not notice them, but if you know anything about the Romanov Family, and I am one of those that do, these mistakes jump right out at you.  Historical fiction or not, there are some mistakes I just can’t let go.

   First of all is the characterization of the Romanov Family themselves.  Many times I found myself asking just who are these people.  They have the same names as the Imperial Family I have read so much about, but that’s about it.  Olga is bitchy and snarky, and constantly puts Tatiana down.  I found myself saying again and again that Olga would never have treated her sister like that.  Nicholas is depicted as a weak man and the novel implies that he is cheating on Alexandra.  Now, Nicholas may have had his flaws, but he was a devoted family man.  He would never sleep around on Alix, like this book suggests he does.  Alexandra is shown to be an emotionally weak woman who claims the ghost of her dead mother is visiting her in the night.  Also, the book implies that she is sleeping with Rasputin, something which never really happened (even though revolutionaries at the time suggested it did, to spur up anti-monarchist feelings).  She flies off the handle at the slightest provocation and, at one point, almost gets into a cat fight with the Dowager Empress.  At this point, I felt like I was watching an old episode of Dynasty.  I know that Alexandra and her mother-in-law never really got along, but this is just too much!

   Speaking of which, the Dowager Empress comes across as a scheming, calculated villain who is willing to go to great lengths to get rid of Alexandra.  She even partners up with Sigmund Freud to try and trick Alix into committing herself to a mental asylum!  All that the Dowager Empress was missing in this book was a mustache to twirl.  This book mad her out to be a “Mwa-ha-ha” type villain.  

   Then of course, we have fictional characters, one of them being a young girl named Daria, whom Tatiana befriends.  This is, of course, the girl whose name Tatiana will end up taking, but I’ll get to that a little farther on.  Another is Michael Gradov, a soldier wounded in the First World War whom Tatiana nurses back to health.  Needless to say, the two of them fall in love and soon we are getting steamy love scenes right out of a Danielle Steele novel.  Ask yourself this, would a girl in that time, raised the way Tatiana was, do something like that?  You be the judge.  In fact, the real Tatiana did fall in love with a soldier named Dimitri Malama, but he’s not even mentioned in this book.  One has to wonder why the author just didn’t use him, since there was a real love connection between Tatiana and Dimitri.  

   In the end, the Russian Revolution comes, the Czar abdicates and the family and servants (including Daria) are sent to Tobolsk (their first place of imprisonment).  It is here that the book REALLY gets silly.  At one point, there is this festival in the town and the guards allow the Romanov Family to attend.  The family wanders about town, frequently being out of sight of the guards!  I’m sorry, but this is another thing I just can’t accept.  There is NO way the guards would have allowed the Imperial Family that kind of leeway.  The family was closely watched all the time, heck they had to check with the guards whenever they wanted to take a walk outside.  To think that they would be allowed to attend any festivals at this point stretches my suspension of disbelief way beyond the breaking point.

   Of course, the real reason the author put this in is because it was needed to provide the backstory of how Tatiana gets away.  There is a plot here to safe the Imperial Family and spirit them away, Tatiana knows about it, and Michael Gradov is part of it.  I really don’t want to get into too much about it, but, needless to say, it doesn’t work.  The family is recaptured and it is here that Daria steps forward to take Tatiana’s place (she either must look very much like Tatiana or the guards were too stupid to notice the switch).  Michael manages to get the real Tatiana away, and Daria ends up being executed at Ipatiev House in Tatiana’s place.  Once again I guess no guards at Ipatiev House noticed the switch, even thought one would assume they would have pictures of the family to make sure such a substitution could not take place.

   As for Tatiana, she and Michael escape.  She marries him, takes the name Daria Gradov, and they end up in Canada, where they lived happily ever after.  The end.

   If this book had come out twenty-five or thirty years ago, before the Soviet Union fell and the fates of the Romanov Family became known, I might not have been so hard on it.  After all, back then there was room for doubt.  Now, of course, there isn’t.  Many would have liked a happy ending for the Romanov Family, but that just didn’t happen, history is not a Disney movie and there was no handsome prince to ride in and save the day.  Still, I could overlook that, if so many other mistakes had not been in the book.  As I said, I found that I just could no longer suspend my disbelief, and that ruined it for me.

   In the end, I give this book a 6/10.  It only gets such a high mark because Tatiana is my favourite Grand Duchess and it was nice to see a story centered around here for a change (usually it’s Anastasia that gets these stories).  I just wish it had been a better story.
Cats: You just gotta love them!

helenazar

  • Guest
Re: The Tsarina's Daughter - Carolly Erickson
« Reply #85 on: September 29, 2010, 05:21:29 PM »
I used to think that Carolly Erickson would be better off writing fiction, but now I am not so sure, LOL.  :-[

Offline TimM

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1940
    • View Profile
Re: The Tsarina's Daughter - Carolly Erickson
« Reply #86 on: September 30, 2010, 07:02:37 AM »
I wouldn't have had such a problem with this book if she had gotten the characterizations right.  The Romanov's in this book acted nothing like the family I've read about.
Cats: You just gotta love them!

Magdalena

  • Guest
Re: The Tsarina's Daughter - Carolly Erickson
« Reply #87 on: September 30, 2010, 09:01:35 AM »
that's seriously the worst book i ever read, money wasted! even if i'm looking at it as a total fiction, my God, it's so pathetic!

Offline TimM

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1940
    • View Profile
Re: The Tsarina's Daughter - Carolly Erickson
« Reply #88 on: September 30, 2010, 10:56:27 AM »
Yeah, I wish the author could have done a better job.  There are plenty of books available about the Imperial Family, so there was no shortage of research material.
Cats: You just gotta love them!

Offline clockworkgirl21

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2667
    • View Profile
Re: The Tsarina's Daughter - Carolly Erickson
« Reply #89 on: November 18, 2010, 01:55:19 PM »
I wasn't planning to read this, but my small town library didn't have much else, so I decided to give it a try. I couldn't stop laughing at how cheesy, stupid, and far fetched it was. Starting with Marie Feodorovna secretly making Olga and Tatiana wear this type of iron corset to make them stand up straighter, Marie F. secretly having Dr. Freud diagnose Alexandra with insanity and trying to have her locked in an asylum, Olga Nicholaievna starting her period and showing Tatiana her bloody clothes to tease her, Nicholas having an affair with Mathilde Kschessinska, Alexandra admitting to attempting suicide, Olga Alexandorvna providing a place for Tatiana to have sex with a medical student, and finally, Tatiana having sex with a patient of hers. That's how far I am right now, and I've laughed out loud quite a few times. This novel is a lot like candy. It tastes good, but it's very bad for you.

Quote
All that the Dowager Empress was missing in this book was a mustache to twirl.  This book mad her out to be a “Mwa-ha-ha” type villain. 

 :D I love that!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2010, 01:58:29 PM by clockworkgirl21 »