Author Topic: Was Communism Good For Russia? - Your Opinion Part 2  (Read 78377 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TimM

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1940
    • View Profile
Re: Was Communism Good For Russia? - Your Opinion Part 2
« Reply #150 on: May 03, 2010, 11:47:07 PM »
Quote
the sad thing is that the Tsar could have initiated the same transition without a revolution and without  all the bloodshed.
 

Yeah, he could have.  But poor old Nicky was determined to cling to the old ways as much as he could.  It ultimately cost him his life, and that of his family.  :(
Cats: You just gotta love them!

Offline David Pritchard

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: Was Communism Good For Russia? - Your Opinion Part 2
« Reply #151 on: May 07, 2010, 06:14:01 PM »
You are asking what were the good points that Communism brought to the Russia of today?

Communism brought education to the masses, a better standard of living for many families and an excellent mass transit system.

Would another 100 years of monarchy have brought the same results without the miseries (a list to long to enumerate)? We will never know.

Offline TimM

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1940
    • View Profile
Re: Was Communism Good For Russia? - Your Opinion Part 2
« Reply #152 on: May 07, 2010, 08:38:23 PM »
Quote
Communism brought education to the masses, a better standard of living for many families and an excellent mass transit system.

Yes, but it also brought misery and an oppression far worse than the Tsar ever dreamed up.  Was the horrors of the Stalin era worth the things you mentioned.  How many millions perished under his rule.  Stalin wiped out whole towns and villages.  He killed more people than Hitler did, because, unlike Hitler, he was not so seletive in who he had killed.

If the monarchy had survived, the horrors of the Stalin era would have been avoided, IMHO.
Cats: You just gotta love them!

Constantinople

  • Guest
Re: Was Communism Good For Russia? - Your Opinion Part 2
« Reply #153 on: May 08, 2010, 03:03:35 AM »
Unfortunately, that monarchy was strangling the democracy that was the only alternative to communism.  If Russia has started it trasnsition to democracy with a constitutional monarchy and a constitution at the beginning of Nicholas's reign, then quite likely Russia would have avoided the Russo Japanese war, the 1905 revolution, perhaps the first world war and the Russian Revolutuion.

Offline TimM

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1940
    • View Profile
Re: Was Communism Good For Russia? - Your Opinion Part 2
« Reply #154 on: May 08, 2010, 03:38:38 PM »
Maybe, but I guess we'll never really know.  The problem was that Nicky didn't understand democracy.  He worked with the system he was raised in, unfortunately.  He simply couldn's see any other way.
Cats: You just gotta love them!

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

  • Guest
Re: Was Communism Good For Russia? - Your Opinion Part 2
« Reply #155 on: May 09, 2010, 07:20:25 PM »
The problem was that Nicky didn't understand democracy.

I wonder if he "understood" or was sympathetic to "Prussian democracy", where the votes of the few highest taxed citizens carried the same weight as the votes of thousands of poor taxpayers? Was his stance a drastic "absolutism or Finnish / West European / US-style democracy", or did he see the reactionary Prussian system as a gate through which Russia gradually could enter the path towards full democracy?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 07:26:30 PM by Fyodor Petrovich »

Constantinople

  • Guest
Re: Was Communism Good For Russia? - Your Opinion Part 2
« Reply #156 on: May 10, 2010, 12:27:41 AM »
He detested Prussia and the Kaıser although they had a long correspondence.  He felt intimidated by Germany.  Nicholas had no desire for any sort of democracy and thought that Russia should keep its autocracy intact.

Offline TimM

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1940
    • View Profile
Re: Was Communism Good For Russia? - Your Opinion Part 2
« Reply #157 on: May 11, 2010, 04:34:05 PM »
The poor guy just couldn't see that the old ways didnt work anymore.   Sad.
Cats: You just gotta love them!

Constantinople

  • Guest
Re: Was Communism Good For Russia? - Your Opinion Part 2
« Reply #158 on: May 12, 2010, 05:18:15 AM »
Actually he didn't have any interest in understanding the old ways not working and he gambled and lost everything.

Offline TimM

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1940
    • View Profile
Re: Was Communism Good For Russia? - Your Opinion Part 2
« Reply #159 on: May 12, 2010, 10:35:42 AM »
Another reason I wish I had a time machine, I'd go back and try to talk some sense into the man.
Cats: You just gotta love them!

Constantinople

  • Guest
Re: Was Communism Good For Russia? - Your Opinion Part 2
« Reply #160 on: May 12, 2010, 02:05:10 PM »
you wouldnt have got anywhere near him.  Noone who had good advice did.

Offline TimM

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1940
    • View Profile
Re: Was Communism Good For Russia? - Your Opinion Part 2
« Reply #161 on: May 12, 2010, 04:50:16 PM »
Yeah, I guess not.  He was probably surrounded by Yes Men who only told him what he wanted to hear.
Cats: You just gotta love them!

Constantinople

  • Guest
Re: Was Communism Good For Russia? - Your Opinion Part 2
« Reply #162 on: May 12, 2010, 09:56:29 PM »
yes man and a wife who was a true autocrat

Offline PAVLOV

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 427
    • View Profile
Re: Was Communism Good For Russia? - Your Opinion Part 2
« Reply #163 on: July 19, 2010, 01:09:47 PM »
This is like asking if Hitler was good for Germany !
Its a bit of a joke that he was referred to as "Nicholas the Bloody", when Stalin was the biggest monster in the history of the world. He was responsible for the murder of more innocent people than Hitler and 300 years of Russian Autocracy put together. The Romanovs were a walk in the park in comparison.
So how could communism possibly have been good for Russia, purely from that perspective ? Or expected to work in the form it developed into ? Come to think of it the Russians dont appear to be taking their "Democracy" very seriously either, actually !! lol.   
History teaches us many lessons, all of which we choose to ignore.  The American constitution, just like communism, is not "good" for the people who are currently, forcibly having to accept it. Because its American it must be good for the whole world. The Russians had the same opinion of their brand of Communism, and also tried to force it onto as many countries around the world, with varying degrees of success.
I dont think the average Russian wanted communism. A  handful of people thought it was a great idea, they convincingly forced it onto the people by fear, starvation, deprivation and death. But today there are many people in Russia who miss communism, God knows why.
I have friends in Spain who miss the " good old days" of Franco because he took no nonsense from anyone and "sorted" things out very quickly. In his own way !

We could go on and on about this subject forever, without reaching an answer.

 But no, I dont think that communism was good for Russia for many reasons, but mainly because it dehumanised and suffocated its victims for more than 70 years.

     

Constantinople

  • Guest
Re: Was Communism Good For Russia? - Your Opinion Part 2
« Reply #164 on: July 19, 2010, 01:19:06 PM »
if you look at social democracy, that works quite well in countries like Scandinavian ones but if you extend the political polemics far enough you get an unworkable  autocracy that is forced to liquidate anyone that doesnt agree with it, which is most people and it doesnt matter dwhether the polemic extension is right or left.