Author Topic: Princess Victoria of Schaumburg-Lippe (Moretta), 2nd daughter of Kaiser Friedrich III  (Read 217201 times)

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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The true story between Moretta and Zubukoff...now that is more information.  ::)

Offline Keith

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What new info? Is there doubt that he bilked her out of her money? The only thing new I've heard is what Sebran posted about his oirigins. To me, that has nothing to do with his actions as an adult.

Offline Eddie_uk

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Exactly Keith! He still ruined Moretta!
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Offline Sebran

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I will tell you what I have heard about the Zoubkoff’s from persons in my family who knew them:

Mary Frykberg went to Russia the first time to visit her sister Ellen who had married there. Ellen’s husband was the owner of a large company and on here trip in the country Mary met his brother (Anatolij Zoubkoff), an anatomy professor, and they took a liking to each other and married. They had two sons: Anatolij and Alexander; called Tola and Sascha. Mary’s husband died during the aftermaths of the Russian revolution 1919 and Marry and her younger son fled to Sweden. Before fleeing to Sweden Sascha among other things was subjected to a fake execution.  
As we all know Sascha married Princess Victoria in 1927. It was a great scandal in Sweden as well as in other countries and there were two major reasons for this:
1.   Sascha was a commoner and Victoria a princess
2.   Victoria was a lot older than Sascha

My relatives were contacted by many journalists during this period and asked to give interviews about the story. E.g. Sascha and Victoria travel around Europe on a motorcycle created a lot of excitement. No one in the family wanted to comment anything about the marriage though. E.g. my grandfather’s father, who was contacted many times, was quite ashamed of the story, not because Alexander was a bad man, but because the customs of those days neither allowed that a commoner married a royal nor that a younger man married an older woman.
As no one belonging to the Zoubkoff or Frykberg family wanted to comment the story, the journalists were more or less given free hands to write what ever they wanted. The prevalent view in those days reflected the royal view of things, princess Victoria’s and Zoubkoff’s relatives were against the marriage and the press wanted to sell as many copies of the newspaper as possible. Consequently journalist had all the possibility in the world to portray the story in a very intriguing way and ascribe it with indecent details, without people protesting. Zoubkoff’s background was made up in a way that made it all even more interesting and he was ascribed very unfavourable characteristics.
Remember every time in history has its own values and norms, and people who behave in a different way than others are often looked upon as bad. Today though, we would say that the outlook of many Europeans in those days was ignorant and racist; in those days it was seen as modern. Of course, the same goes with accepted values today; tomorrow many of them will be rejected.

Offline Sebran

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I think it is very unfortunate that people don’t see how limited the information we have about Zoubkoff is. An historian would never use the facts we have here to try to ascribe Zoubkoff certain characteristics (good or bad). What we know about him come from completely untrustworthy sources. Actually the only testimony we have from someone who really knew him, is Victoria’s memoirs. There she does not blame Zoubkoff for anything, and as I have showed in letters I have posted she was still quite affectionate about him after he had left her. Her view of him might be distorted or it might not be – we can never know. Then we have got Zoubkoff’s own memoirs – we can choose to read them and see what they say or we can reject them without even opening the book – remember certain people are never given a chance to give their side of the story.

When regarding Zoubkoff’s actions, there is not much we can say either. Actually we don’t know if much of what has been written about what he did is true or not. Journalists have obviously given him a false identity (giving him a new background), so why couldn’t they also find up things about what he e.g. did during his marriage with Victoria? And if we although look upon the hypothetical statement “that he used Victoria’s money to finance certain projects”, we will still never now why he did so, or what his purpose was. It could as well be that he actually thought that by investing the money in different projects they would multiply and contribute to his and Victoria’s fortune. If he then failed, he might have been foolish, but not necessarily wicked. As I wrote (see above) Victoria seems to have liked him even after.

With the scarce facts that we have it is difficult to say who Zoubkoff really was. I won’t say he was a good person, because I don’t know – that is the reason I can’t say he was bad either. What I do know is that his life, even if eventful, was tragic. He was a drug addict who died at the age of 34. Not necessarily because he was an evil person, but more probably because he had experienced terrible things and had come in contact with the wrong persons under wrong circumstances. What I also know is that his mother, who according to what I have heard was a very warm and kind-hearted person, felt passionate about him.

It makes med sad that people here try to condemn Zoubkoff. It is my strongest believe that it is not their task to do so. It also makes me sad that the response I get when talking openly about the story (no one else in my family has) is disdain. It makes me regret that I ever posted the photos.

I gladly welcome anyone who is interested in the story to search through archives and try to find more information about what really happened. It could also be a good idea to contact Zoubkoff’s relatives in Russia – his brother had one son Igor (and as much as I know he is still alive) – he might have inherited other pictures and documents that could contribute to give a more moderate picture of what happened and not.

Speculations based on fabricated facts have never done anything but harm. Hatred walks hand-in-hand with ignorance. Ignorance is based on a lack of knowledge. Actually I recently showed the discussion on this site to a friend, a history professor; when he had read some of the comments he advised me that it would be wise of me not to answer the accusations. He said that “intelligent and cultivated people, people who know when something is based on rubbish, will dismiss what has been written here with shrug of the shoulder and look upon it as ignorance”. He went on “someone who is scientifically educated and up to date with methodological issues knows that it is very difficult and risky to use scarce facts to ascribe persons with different attributes” and “anyone who tries to do it in this case is foolish, as few ‘real’ facts seem to exist, and most of it is fiction”.
Maybe it has been unwise of me to write this, but I still think someone, even if not scientifically educated, might be interested in reading it. An antithesis to the speculations carried out on this site, has a very important purpose to fulfil. I don’t say that anyone should try to ascribe Zoubkoff with good characteristics, but true facts are needed to fill the hole that fiction has been digging.

Offline Eddie_uk

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And if we although look upon the hypothetical statement “that he used Victoria’s money to finance certain projects”, we will still never now why he did so, or what his purpose was. It could as well be that he actually thought that by investing the money in different projects they would multiply and contribute to his and Victoria’s fortune. If he then failed, he might have been foolish, but not necessarily wicked.

I could believe this if it wasn't for Moretta wanting a divorce. She had considerable wealth, what happened to it all? And so quickly too  ???

IMHO and totally stereotypical but just looking at him tells me he was not someone you could trust!! I think it's the eyes.... :o
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Offline Sebran

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Once people said that long noses was a sign of greed and that black skin was a sign of savageness. Now someone say that eyes can reflect trustworthiness. A completely worthless and foolish statement. History repeats it self.

By the way, by saying that Zoubkoff's eyes can reflect that he is not to trust, you say so of many of his family members as well. Their eyes were quite similar - see e.g. the photo of Alexanders father, which I have posted!

Offline Eddie_uk

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YOUR opinion!
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Offline Keith

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And a highly pompous opinion, I might add.

What a pity his family couldn't bother to come to his defense for what seems to be rather lame reasons. If someone in your family is being maligned publicly, you would think their own family would move heaven and earth to try and at least get their side of the story out to the public. They didn't bother to do it in the 20's nor again 40 years later when Lynx's book came out. Nor does it seem that any of his friends made any attempt to come to his defense. Possibly they found his actions indefensible. But then I'm not scientificaly educated. so what do I know!
« Last Edit: November 19, 2006, 03:30:42 PM by Keith »

Offline Eric_Lowe

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I hope of new evidence can shed further light into this. There is aways more to this than b/w in any given situation.  ;)

Offline Eddie_uk

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Eric, what would new evidence tell us? I think it's pretty clear, Moretta got ripped off it would seem!  ???

 :) :)
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Offline imperial angel

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He might have been someone who fell prey to the wromg circumstances, but then he might have made the wrong circumstances happen for Moretta. I don't say he was a victim, nor that he was no good. I think it is generally accepted by most he wsn't but then they didn't know him, and it just seemed the obvious conclusion. I find it believable that he might have been a victim with the drug addiction thing or other stuff, but it seems even if his intention wasn't to rip off Moretta, as has been assumed, that he was a unstable character. I am not saying he intended to rip her off, because we often have good intentions, and then things don't go so well. What seems clear is there may well be more to the story- he made her happy for a while. I still tend to think he was someone she would have better not have been involved with. But, it is true that that the stuff written in books is often one thing, and the reality sometimes another, I agree. At any rate, I was just posting based on what knowledge I had at the time.. I'm no academic, and I don't have any connection to these long ago events, so it is hard to know the truth. I have enjoyed all your posts, though, Sebran, and also the pictures.

Offline Eddie_uk

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Grief is the price we pay for love.

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Offline imperial angel

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Well, what I was saying is that Sebran has a point, but who knows? I am glad to read a different viewpoint on all this.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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I believe so...I don't think there is research on what Zubokoff's mother knew about the situation. Surely it would be unthinkable for Mossy to keep in contact with her if he and his family were the monsters Lynx depict them in his book.  ???