Kaiser Wilhelm II

[grandduchessella]

Iv seen a couple of Images of Doorn, but most are of him in the garden.  Obviously it wasn't a castle at all, which is what I usually hear it referenced to as, maybe people just presumed.  

At school my history teacher told me that Wilhelm was such a good horseman due to his parents training him rather harshly.  Due to his arm, he would fall easily, but they insisted on him being placed right back on the horse as soon as this happened, over and over again until he 'got it right'.  It seems really cruel, but when you consider he was going to be the Kaiser one day, they had to ensure he wouldn't be prohibited, despite his disability.  I still feel sorry for him though, I was bucked really badly when I was little, and refused to ride for years!

It does seem rather harsh, but it was done for his own good. Not only because he would be Kaiser, but so much would be expected of him within the Prussian military mindset. He would be able to ride, shoot, etc..as well as anyone and would never be a source of mockery due to his disability (now the moustache is another story.... ). It's reminiscent of how VMH drilled Alice on sign language, etc...which Earl Mountbatten found rather harsh and demanding but ultimately benefited Alice for the same reasons.

[James_Davidov]

Lol, Grandduches Ella explain your moustache theory,  who was VMH?> Its probably obvious and I'm embarrasing myself, lol

[Alicky1872]

James, VMH is Victoria Milford Haven, aka Princess Victoria of Hesse, Princess Louis of Battenberg. (1863-1950) She was the eldest daughter of Alice, Grand Duchess of Hesse. She in turn named her eldest daughter (who suffered from deafness) Alice, and that Alice is the mother of Prince Philip!

Just an interesting little bit of information: Wilhelm was responsible for teaching his cousin Victoria how to smoke at the age of 16, a habit she had for the rest of her life. In later life, after years of chain smoking, she was told by her doctors to cut her smoking in half...she responded by cutting the cigarettes in half, in no way reducing the amount of cigarettes she smoked!

[grandduchessella]

Lol, Grandduches Ella explain your moustache theory,  who was VMH?> Its probably obvious and I'm embarrasing myself, lol

No, no, my fault. We get so used to shorthand that sometimes it's easier to forget that newbies haven't been around to pick up all abbreviations.   VMH is Victoria Milford-Haven (b. Victoria of Hesse and later Victoria of Battenberg). The moustache referrence is just that it was so waxed and pointy that it was prime material for satirists and caricaturists all over the world.

[HerrKaiser]

The moustache has surely been a source for charicatures world wide especially since WWI. But, during the late 1800s and early 1900s, Wilhelm was a very popular (in a semi-nerdy sense) personality and his moustache style was adopted by men all over the place. The long handle bars can be seen both in fashion as well as in common life. "Kaiser Bill" was commonly used to refer to him and his particular style.

[bluetoria]

What do you make of Willie's attitude to his mother? One moment he seems to adore her (dreaming about her hands), the next despise her for her English blood (despite his great veneration of QV) and her alleged cruel treatment of him. Notwithstanding his cruelty on the death of his father, was he perhaps constantly seeking her attention & admiration? Did he think she didn't love him (because of his arm perhaps?)
The relationship seems to me to be almost mirrored in the relationship of Marie of Roumania & her son Carol...has anyone any ideas, please?

[Alicky1872]

Reading about "the hands" in An Uncommon Woman, really creeped me out.  

[Lourdes]

Hi I just read these messages. the subject of Vicky, and her son, Wilhelm, has always seemed an interesting topic to me. I have read many stories about them. I feel Queen Victoria was a very critical mother, and Vicky picked up this trait. Some of the letters I have read between Vicky and her Mother were quite shocking to me in the way they criticized their children. Their Looks, their manners, and so on. Being a Mother myself, I found some of this stuff emotionally abusive. I think Wilhelm had alot of resentment toward his mother because she was sometimes just plain mean. I think she didn't intentionally wanted to be this way, but we learn to Mother children from our mothers. Also Wilhelm was a little brainwashed from outside sources.

[bluetoria]

I agree about their letters. I cannot imagine describing one of my children as UGLY in fact SO ugly repeatedly...and backward! As you say, QV was just the same though particularly in her descriptions of poor Leopold - which is even worse because she knew it his illness that crippled him! I don't think that that it meant they didn't love their children, they were just exceedingly candid! The only hope is that the children themselves didn't read the letters.

[grandduchessella]

It is off-putting to modern eyes and sensibilities to read such passages about ones' children. I can only guess that it was not unusual for the times and/or their position in life. I don't know. I certainly am not blind to my children's faults but I certainly wouldn't write about them in such terms even to my mother!

As for Willy and Vicky, it seems a true love/hate relationship. I always got the feeling that he loved her very much--perhaps almost as much as he loved anyone and conversely could hate her just as much. It's sort of the old cliches about a fine line between love/hate and also that such force of feeling are often related to each other. I think he craved her approval and acceptance and when she couldn't give it always, he reacted hatefully and this in turn made her despise some of his behaviors even more. They seem tragically unable to understand each other. It certainly wasn't helped by the constraints of their lives and the people who surrounded them, nor by the fact that Vicky was basically a teenage mother and not able to assert her will as much as she would later. Also added to the mix was the fact that Vicky was passionately in love with Fritz and to have a child so early on, she probably felt somewhat resentful (ala QV) about sharing her time with a newborn--especially one with a rather severe disability. Toss in the disability and her guilt over it, add a pinch of equally strong-willed and stubborn characters and mix with all the other factors and you have a prime recipe for a very troubled relationship.

[PrinceEddy1864]

Oh ella I think your last post was wonderful. So well said and all of it true.
I think they were just so very different that a close relationship was impossible. Both Vicky and Willy were very passionate people but never really shared the same passions you know. Like ella said they just could not relate in any way to each other. As an adult Willy could often be pushy and cruel and Vicky being neither of these things could do little but duck and hide, metaphorically speaking. I completly agree about the ultimate love/hate relationship. Willy would probably have taken a bullet for his mother but was never able to express the feelings of love he did have as he was too caught up in the aspects of his mothers character that displeased him. He probably found it hard to show his love for his mother when he did feel it and Vicky probably took this as a sign of his simply having no real love for her at all. Vicky was rarely pleased with Willy's behavior because he did not act like his father or Albert. I think she wanted him to be like these two men so much and was really let down when it became evident that Willy was simply not going to turn out like either of them. They both seem to be forever dissappointed with one another.

[HerrKaiser]

GDella and PrinceEddy make excellent analyses of the unfortunate outward relationship. In addition, it is also true that the somewhat controversial attitudes family members had in those times did  not reflect the core love and admiration between the people. In many ethnic German households in the US even as recently as the 50s and 60s, parents were very "cruel" to their kids in ways that today would be considered somewhat abusive. Nonetheless, there was never a concern that these parents were not fully and utterly committed in love and support for the kids. And, the kids to their parents.
William would, on occasion, show up at Kronberg and surprise Vicky with a visit. It pleased him greatly to do such things to show his "love" and Vicky was well aware of the thoughtfullness. They each tried to do "extra" niceties (such as a mamouth State dinner Vicky encourage QV to hold in W's honor) to show affection and understanding.
He also was the one who was most vigilant at QVs deathbed.
Unfortunately some extreme meannesses get highlighted not only in history but in the hearts of the people involved, creating what appear to be personality deficiencies.

[Agneschen]

Quite an interesting but complicated question ! I devoted 2 whole chapters of my university thesis on QV (her influence over her descendance and its consequences on European history) to but it would take me 100 pages to explain. A few points though :

- Vicky's incredible bluntness in discussing her children as mentioned above. Wilhelm's withered arm inspired her with an aversion which she never totally overcame. Fritz resigned himself to his son being handicapped but Vicky simply could not, it made her frantic. The arm is mentionned again and again in her letters to QV and she uses very harsh words.
Wilhelm probably sensed his mother's disgust and shame and must have felt humiliated and rejected. His arm remained a sore spot with him for the rest of his life.

- Vicky's personality was obviously narcissistic and her children's failings maddened her. Unlike her, Wilhelm was neither precocious nor particularly gifted. She was impossible to please. Her letters to him are full of rebukes and those to QV of complaints about him.

- Vicky was very much aware of the political implications in her marriage to Fritz. Her greatest wish was to help turning her father's liberal dream into reality. She believed that she had been sent to Prussia to produce a generation of reformers. Only, being a woman, she could play no political role in Prussia but through her husband and son. Hence her bitter disappointment when she realized that Wilhelm was not the physically and intellectually perfect heir she expected. He was not prince Albert come back to earth.

- She was firmly convinced that everything English was just best and her constant boasting of England's superiority must have annoyed Wilhelm (heir to a German throne) almost as much as it did those around her. His aggressiveness may have been a way to assert himself as a German in front of his anglophile mother. Besides, in bringing him up as an English liberal gentleman, she caused a deep confusion of nationalities in him. Hence his later ambivalent attitude toward England.

The child adored his mother and could not fail to sense that he did not come up to her wishes. He must have doubted her love for him or at least her capacity to love him as he was, with his failings and shortcomings.

- Bismarck, Vicky's sworn enemy, further embittered her relationship with Wilhelm. He had already taken advantage of her disastrous beginnings in Prussia to ostracize her and Fritz whose liberal political outlook he despised. The admiration Wilhelm felt for him as a young man was a godsend and he probably did his best to turn him against his parents. Worshipping Bismarck was certainly a way for W to anger his father and mother but, at the same time, we must consider that it was him after all and not Vicky and Fritz's liberal ideals which had achieved the making of the German empire under Prussia's lead. Willy looking up at the founder of Prussia's greatness therefore cannot be wondered at.

For those who are interested in the subject, I would recommand 2 good articles, "Kaiser Wilhelm II and his parents" by T. Kohut and "History as a family chronicle" by C.Lamar, to be found in Kaiser Wilhelm - New Interpretations by J.C.Röhl and N.Sombart.

[bluetoria]

From all these very brilliant postings it seems as though he was really 'torn' between his role as Kaiser & his natural love for his very anglophile mother. Going behind all the bluster & show, does it make you wonder what he thought of the war? It must have been as much agony for him as it was for the Hessians, Albanys, Schleswig-Holsteins etc.
My grandmother would be appalled to think I have a picture of him on my wall! In the songs of the time he was always painted as the 'baddy' - he always seems to me like a lost little boy hiding behind a lot of uniforms & bluster.

[Agneschen]

You are quite right bluetoria. Kaiser Wilhelm is presented as a extremely negative historical figure (especially here in France) and I have always felt compassion and sympathy for him, especially for the complexed little boy hiding behind the man. I do not mean that he was misjudged by posterity for he made the world chaos but I think we should not pass a judgement on him (or any other by the way) without actually trying to understand his personality, who he was and why he became what he was. I also have a picture of him and Vicky on my wall.