The Nazi's

[Michael HR]

Does anyone know what the Nazi's managed to steal form the Alexander Palace and if any of the items have ever been returned. After they had left the Palace staff might have know what was missing from their knowledge of the contents.

[BobAtchison]

There are many pieces in the USA that were stolen from the place.  Here's an example - John Atzbach, a dealer in Washington, has a bronze statue from the Pallisander Room stolen by the Germans from the palace.

It was sold in New York by one of the two big auction houses in the 70's or 80's.  It reappeared in the 90's and I arranged for a man who supported the Alexander Palace to buy it, with the promise he would have it returned to the palace on his death.  Unfortunately, he sold it without telling me and now Atzbach has it.  It is stolen so it should go back.

[Douglas]

From what I have read there are tons of antiques around that could easily fit into the AP in such a way that the casual observer could hardly tell it from the original.

Even the reproductions made in Vietnam are incredible and don't cost a fortune.

Yes, the  purists would disagree but at least  the rooms would have the feeling of the original decoration style that was ......well, ..refined clutter. 

[Robert_Hall]

 What I see the most of, in the business now, is china.  There seems to be an over abundance of it, although the prices certainly do not reflect that. And to be fair, the Soviets did sell off a lot and  evacuated  even more, in much haste before the Nazis even arrived.  Years ago, when we were just starting- and learning, in the business we had a  bronze statue supposedly from the AP.  It was quite heavy, art nuveau and I hated it. One of the 4 seasons, as I recall. But it's provenance could not be peroven. Brought back  by an American GI  after WWII.  Where he got it from is anybody's guess.
 But,  today, seeing what is still in Russia,  the missing is just a tiny dent in the national patrimony. And thanks to the generosity of the new wealthy in Russia,  many pieces are being reclaimed.

[bkohatl]

With the current discussion about the possible recovery of the Amber Room and return to the Catherine Palace and that Schliemann's discoveries from Troy could be returned to the Berlin National Museum, of course the Turks have a claim too(though Schliemann paid a fine of 2000 Marks in 1891 to the Turkish Government). Then the Stolen Elgin Marbles in the British Museum.
But the one thing that is inexcusable, is theft be individuals. Recently a Texan was sued because he stole paintings from a German Catholic Church. His argument was that he wasn't Catholic. Amazing.
Return what belongs to Russia to Russia!

[RichC]

There are many pieces in the USA that were stolen from the place.  Here's an example - John Atzbach, a dealer in Washington, has a bronze statue from the Pallisander Room stolen by the Germans from the palace.

It was sold in New York by one of the two big auction houses in the 70's or 80's.  It reappeared in the 90's and I arranged for a man who supported the Alexander Palace to buy it, with the promise he would have it returned to the palace on his death.  Unfortunately, he sold it without telling me and now Atzbach has it.  It is stolen so it should go back.

Is there any kind of public database of missing items? 

[Robert_Hall]

This is a very complicated issue. Items, such as the Elgin marbles were bought, legally, from the legitimate  government at the time [Ottomans].
 Items sold buy  governments such as the Soviets came into their provenance and sold legitimately as well.
 Items looted as war booty and "souvenirs" are another area altogether.  Recently, I read an article about  wine from Hitler's wine cellar being brought up for auction.  Is that loot or historical treasure? He did not even drink, after all.
 But, to address the question, no. It is up to the searchers to find the items. AND inform the dealers that there may be a question of provenance. The vast majority of such sellers and galleries are happy to cooperate with  any such contentions.

[aleksandr pavlovich]

The "apparent ?" aforementioned bronze bust of Alexander III  seems to be still with that dealer previously mentioned.  The provenance is given as belonging to the Granduchess Xenia A. "and thence by descent to Prince Andrew Romanov", who asserts that it was  for a while in "Frogmore Cottage, Windsor Castle."  ( Family possession?  Acquired by the Granduchess as  a present/family momento ? ) Reference:  John Atzbach's site, "Misc., Page 1."  Possibly the mention on this Board is of another work depicting Alexander III?  If so, an odd concidence.  I remember the dealer as having this for a while.  Parenthetically, I and my family have done business before with John, who is a very knowledgeable and well-respected dealer in superb items.    AP

[Vladimir_V.]

Is there any kind of public database of missing items? 

No. The museum made a database of missing items from Catherine Palace and Pavilions only:

http://www.lostart.ru/lost/catalog/t1/45/389.html
http://www.lostart.ru/lost/catalog/t1/2/26.html
http://www.lostart.ru/lost/catalog/t1/47/428.html
http://www.lostart.ru/lost/catalog/t1/

It was published in English some years ago.

[Vecchiolarry]

Hi,

Off Topic & I apologize:
Robert -
I have seen the Elgin Marbles in the British Museum years ago;  and I think they should be returned to Greece.
Yes, they were sold by a legitimate government but it was a government of conquest and the marbles were not created by the Ottomans but long ago by Greeks.  Therefore, the Greeks did not actually sell them, but still regard them as 'stolen'.....
Just my humble opinion and several million Greeks opinion(s).....

Cheers,
Larry

[Robert_Hall]

Obviously I disagree, Larry.   And by your logic, 90% of all museum holdings should be returned to their country of manufacture.  That would empty the Hermitage in no time! And, BTW, the Greeks today have nothing in common  with the ancient ones and the marbles are not all that big of an issue in Greece itself. It is political grandstanding. As only the Greeks can do.  If it has been years since you, or anyone has seen the Marbles,  please re-visit the British Museum and see them in their beautiful  dedicated gallery.
 And, even further off topic, the Ottoman  conquest of the decrepit Byzantine Empire is another topic I would gladly discuss.
 However, as this topic is about Nazi looted artwork, I find it interesting that  artwork created  during the Nazi regime is banned from returning to Germany.  There is a continual effort to erase it from the German heritage. A big mistake, in my opinion.  It would be equally  tragic if the  current Russian  government tried to erase it's Soviet & revolutionary heritage.  Fortunately, I do not see that happening too much. Despite the name changes,  history still recalls the sieges of Leningrad and Stalingrad for instance.
 And, as an addendum,  Russia holds  quite a stash of art looted [booty] from Germany.  I see exchanges take place every now & then, but the Amber Room, is most likely, never to be seen [original] again. The re-creation is flawless and we should be happy with that.

[Michael HR]

I think the worn done on the amber room, Pavlosk etc is outstanding and have only praise for the workmanship performed. The original amber room seems gone for ever but we have a recreation that would appear to be breathtaking. We should be grateful the Russian people saw fit to do this and only hope the restoration of the AP is of the hight standard thus far shown.

[Constantinople]

Slightly off topic, has john Altzbach sold many of his overpriced items?  They are nice but the prices seem well over those of Chrisites and Sothebys
What is his reputation?