Author Topic: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?  (Read 46896 times)

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Offline Sarushka

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Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« on: September 08, 2008, 09:16:26 AM »
Has anyone ever heard of Aleksei owning a dog called "Shot" ("Шот" in Russian) that died in October of 1914? He's mentioned in this Russian article, and I don't recall hearing about any such dog before:

http://www.dog.ru/index.php3?mode=1&id=415036

Ольга пишет 18 октября 1914 года:
«…Алексея Шот умер. Похоронили сегодня на островке, и у него теперь его брат, тоже Шот…».
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Offline Victory_L

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2008, 11:09:59 AM »
Oh, yes! Olga and Tatiana, Maria, Anastasia and Alexei diarys it is possible read not long ago. Not as a whole.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2008, 11:48:12 AM »
A mention of Shot in one of Aleksei's letters on the main APTM site:

Oct. 26, 1914
"...Today we are going to make another fire. At 6 p.m. Mother, sisters and I will go to the Palace's hospital. Shot and Ortino [dogs] are playing. The weather is fine but there is very little snow. I stay out of doors for a long time every day and go for drives in the motor-car. I've begun reading stories by cossack Lugansky..."


However, this must be a second dog named Shot, as according to Olga's letter of 18 October the dog had just died. I don't have my Russian dictionary with me, so correct me if I'm wrong in translating Olga's letter thus:

"...Aleksei's Shot died. We buried him today on the island, and he [Aleksei] now has his [Shot's] brother, also [called] Shot."

(Thanks to Laura Mabee for helping with this!)
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Offline Victory_L

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2008, 01:00:11 PM »
Yes, translation is good! Most probably Shot 2. Not ORTINO. ORTIPO!

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2008, 01:32:01 PM »
Not ORTINO. ORTIPO!

I've been doing some research about that dog's name, too, and I think you're correct. I'll start a new thread about it when I have a little more information. ; )
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Offline nena

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2008, 01:35:15 PM »
Yes, I agree. But what about calendars? What if date of Olga's diary enrty was 13 day later, so October 31st 1914? Then it is one Shot.  ???
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Offline Victory_L

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2008, 01:48:21 PM »
 New  calendars 26 января 1918 года.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2008, 01:50:46 PM »
In my experience, most publications reprinting imperial Russian documents don't change the date as originally written by the author, so I think it's safe to assume these are OS. Also, I think Olga's letter is pretty clear that there were two dogs named Shot.
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Offline Victory_L

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2008, 02:15:52 PM »
Course. I consent. Sorry english! :-)

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2008, 03:36:09 PM »
Not ORTINO. ORTIPO!

I've been doing some research about that dog's name, too, and I think you're correct. I'll start a new thread about it when I have a little more information. ; )

No, the name is Ortino.

We have our own copy of Alexei's letter to Nicholas and this is the exact translation we got from one of Bob's people in Petersburg at the time:

Oct.26,1914,  "...Today we are going to make another fire. At 6 p.m.
pp.22,23.     Mother, sisters and I will go to the Palace's hospital.
              Shot and Ortino are playing. The weather is
              fine but there is very little snow. I stay out of doors
              for a long time every day and go for drives in the
              motor-car. I've begun reading stories by cossack Lu-
              gansky..."

here are from Anastasia to Nicholas:

Oct.28, 1914, "...Ortino and Tatyana are running about the room now.
p.44.         Mother is going to receive Maklakov at 9 a.m. and
              Malama will come, too, which is very pleasant. I took
              this picture of myself looking at the mirror. It was
              very hard as my hands were trembling.
              ...I had 7 classes today and tomorrow I am going to
              have 4 or 5... I am having a Russian class now and
              Pyotr Alexeyevich is reading Turguenev's "The Hunter's
              Notes" to us..."

Jan.30,1915,  "...I taught Ortino to sit up and beg and today I've
p.58.         taught her to give her paw and now she can do it. She
              is so sweet..."

March 7,      "...I'm so grateful to you that you allowed us to use
1915,p.61.    your bath. We bathed there yesterday. It was such fun!
              I was the first to go. There was much water. I was able
              to swim around the bath and then jumped down from its
              sides. It was terrific! Then Maria and I played in the
              water for some time but, unfortunately,I had to get out
              soon. Ortino was running about all the time and barking.
              After that Olga and Tatyana bathes and also enjoyed
              themselves!... Mother has already got in her room the
              flowers which you like. You know those blue flowers
              which grow in front of Grandmother's windows. They have
              just opened. Tomorrow is Sunday. It's so good not to
              have lessons when you can lie about in bed longer than
              usual... All of us are kissing you including Ortino
              who is running about here like a mad dog... She is
              such a dear..."

Apr.7,1915,   "...We have just finished dinner. Mother is lying and
p.64.         sisters are sitting nearby. Tatyana is out, of course,
              as usual. Shvybzik and Ortino are lying in Mother's bed
              and sleeping. They are such darlings..."
« Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 03:43:15 PM by Forum Admin »

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2008, 04:06:27 PM »
This is driving me bats -- I've been chasing this question for months and keep going around in circles. Lili Dehn, Valentina Chebotareva, Sisters of Mercy, and Complete Wartime Correspondence all spell the name with a "p". Since it seemed likely they had worked from original documents, I was inclined to trust Fuhrmann and SoM.

Rob, do you have facsimiles of those letters in the IF's own handwriting that you can check? Obviously the name is getting botched in transliteration *somewhere,* and the only way I can come up with to be sure is to look at the IF's actual handwriting in Russian and/or English. My best guess is that the similarity between the handwritten "н" (n) and "п" (p) in Russian is the culprit...

I asked Raegan some time ago if she'd come across any clues at GARF, but she didn't recall offhand and hasn't gotten back to me.
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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2008, 05:04:03 PM »
Our translations were done in 1994 by one of Bob's researchers who went to GARF and translated from the originals. She is a native born Russian, who still lives in Petersburg and who holds a university degree in English.  There is no chance she could have mistaken a "n" for a "p", particularly the number of times the name was written.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2008, 05:32:10 PM »
Well that helps in a sense, but I'm still flummoxed. That's precisely what I assumed of the editor of Sisters of Mercy: a native speaker looking at original documents in GARF. And in that case she didn't even have to translate or transliterate. I honestly don't know which source to believe -- it makes no sense for either one of these researchers to make that mistake, yet one of them clearly has. Ditto for Dehn, Chebotareva, and Fuhrmann...
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Offline Victory_L

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2008, 05:59:52 PM »
Friends! You remember this children talk in russian, english and french! They  manage mix up! Necessity  watch diary and letter Tatiana. Ortipo - Tatianas dog. (sorry, english :-(  )

Offline nena

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2008, 08:12:38 AM »
Yes, I was going to say some things makes misunderstandings because similiars between 'n' and 'p' in Russian. Just look at Tatiana's signature.
We know her name was Tatiana, but in signatures it looks like Tatiapa.  ;)

And, what if another Shot died a long ago? And what if Olga meant brother/теперь by same names of dogs?  ;)
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