Author Topic: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?  (Read 48018 times)

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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2008, 04:43:56 PM »
Telegram, NII to AF
5 September 1915
Many thanks for yours and Marie's letter. Too bad about Ortipo. Just got your telegram...

A note from the editor explains that the family's female bulldog had just died. However, the letter of 17 September 1915 Victory_L. quoted says that "Ortipo" had just given birth, and that the mother and puppies were brought up for Tatiana to see. So unless Malama replaced Tatiana's dog almost instantly with a pregnant female, something is amiss! I'm looking through Sisters of Mercy and so far havent found any reference to the dog dying in September of 1915. According to Greg King there was a reference to Ortino/Ortipo's death in a letter from AF to NII on 5 September, but I've read Alexandra's letter from that date and found nothing.

Other references to Ortino/Ortipo in The Complete Wartime Correspondence:
Letter, AF to NII
28 November 1915
Ortipo is lying on my bed & sleeping fast.


Letter, AF to NII
17 March 1916
My little Malama came for an hour yesterday evening, after dinner at Anias. We had not seen him for 1 1/2 years. Looks flourishing more of a man now, an adorable boy still. I must say, a perfect son in law he wold. have been -- why are foreign Pces. [princes] not as nice! Ortipo had to be shown to his "Father" of course.
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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2008, 09:11:53 PM »
here are from Anastasia to Nicholas:

Oct.28, 1914, "...Ortino and Tatyana are running about the room now.
p.44.         Mother is going to receive Maklakov at 9 a.m. and
              Malama will come, too, which is very pleasant. I took
              this picture of myself looking at the mirror. It was
              very hard as my hands were trembling.
              ...I had 7 classes today and tomorrow I am going to
              have 4 or 5... I am having a Russian class now and
              Pyotr Alexeyevich is reading Turguenev's "The Hunter's
              Notes" to us..."

Jan.30,1915,  "...I taught Ortino to sit up and beg and today I've
p.58.         taught her to give her paw and now she can do it. She
              is so sweet..."

Just to compound an already confusing issue....

Sisters of Mercy also quotes these two letters but gives the spelling as "Ortipo."
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Offline mitia

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2008, 07:13:51 AM »
I believe that the main question is : what does the Tsar really mean when he writes " Too bad about Ortipo/Ortino " ? Does it necessarily mean that the female brindle french bulldog died around 5 september 1915 at the early age of 1 year and a few months ( presuming that Ortino was just a puppy of around 2 months when Malama presented her to Tatiana in october 1914 ? ) ? Indeed " the mystery thickens " as Ortino gave birth to pupies in september 1915 too, and that the "mother and puppies " were brought to Tatiana !!!

As a rule, female french bulldogs get their first seasons at the age of 10/12 months and it is rather dangerous for them to get pregnant at such an early stage. It is preferable to wait 6 months more or one year more for a first pregnancy. Of course " accidental pregnancies " can always happen, especially when the female frenchie is living in a home with other male pets, I have known several such cases in all these past years. Moreover, the fact that a frenchie female is pregnant indeed is often not obvious till just a few weeks before she is due to give birth, this is very true in the case of a very young female. Here again I can quote the story of a very reputable pug and french bulldog breeder : one of her frenchie girls just 1 year old happened to be in seasons, the person went shopping beeing absolutely sure that this female frenchie  was locked in the house....When she returned from shopping, she realized that the frenchie girl had managed to get into the garden where some pug boys were staying, but everything looked quiet and all the dogs looked fine and happy.....50 days later it was then obvious the frenchie girl was pregnant and 14 days later she gave birth to 4 lovely " frug " puppies ( french bulldog crossed with pug !!! ) that all went to good pets home where they had  very happy lifes !

I am telling this little story that some members will find boring ( sorry ) to mention two possible or plausible explanations about the Tsar's words " Too bad for Ortino/po " : MAYBE the IF discovered very late that Ortino/po was pregnant and they were worried for Ortino/po and the next to come pups. Or MAYBE Ortino/po had a difficult whelping in early september and one of the female puppies died. Of course these are only suppositions and I sincerely hope that members who can read Russian will one day find the true story.

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2008, 11:45:39 AM »
mitia ! Thank you at goodness words! You version apparent very real. We over wait news materials out of open archives! :-)

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2008, 09:40:45 AM »
Could this dog, photographed at Stavka with Joy, be Aleksei's Shot?


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Offline nena

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #50 on: November 28, 2008, 03:58:58 PM »
That picture is very rare to me, and I don't know what to say. I think it is labeled to be taken at Tsarskoe Selo in 1915, and it might be it is Shot, or any dog from town.

And I want to add - I think it sounds maybe clearer if we say these pics. were taken at Mogilev (town of General Russian Headquarters during WW1 since August 1915 till 1917) rather than 'Stavka' which is only synonym of GHQ, not place where pics. were taken. It is just my opinions, don't get mad with me.  ;)
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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2008, 11:18:23 AM »
Could this dog, photographed at Stavka with Joy, be Aleksei's Shot?
....

Looking at the body language of Joy, it seems to me that he doesn't know the dog in the foreground.

 And, the dog in the foreground is aware that the older dog  might not want to play....

I've own two Springer Spaniels.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 11:24:23 AM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #52 on: November 29, 2008, 01:31:47 PM »
I guess I don't see what you see. To me, Joy's sideways glance makes her appear indifferent, and the mystery hound seems relaxed -- its ears aren't perked nor laid back.
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Offline mitia

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #53 on: November 29, 2008, 01:53:51 PM »
Well, I believe that to make " these 2 dogs' body language " somehow meaningful, one should firstly know whether the dog  in the fore ground, by the way sitting rather elegantly, is a boy or a girl !

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #54 on: November 29, 2008, 05:30:42 PM »
Well, I believe that to make " these 2 dogs' body language " somehow meaningful, one should firstly know whether the dog  in the fore ground, by the way sitting rather elegantly, is a boy or a girl !

LMAO -- excellent point!
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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #55 on: November 30, 2008, 11:00:02 AM »
Could this dog, photographed at Stavka with Joy, be Aleksei's Shot?




A correction: according to Vyrubova's notation, this was taken at "Zarskoe" in 1915, not Stavka/Mogilev.
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Offline Lady Macduff

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #56 on: September 29, 2013, 07:50:59 PM »
Very interesting development in the Shot case.

I found this picture on Tumblr of Alexei, Derevenko, and an unidentified dog between them. Looking at its face it appears that it could be the same dog we see from behind in the 1915 picture. Yes, Alexei is a lot younger here, but the dog also looks like a puppy.

Thoughts?
We are sitting together as usual, but you are missing from the room. - AN

Offline edubs31

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #57 on: September 29, 2013, 08:06:55 PM »
Wow, very nice pull there Lady Macduff! A very sweet picture in addition to it revealing a possible clue about the identity of "Shot".
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2013, 12:54:23 AM »
Supposing Shot 1 died in October 1914,

I  found a proof that he they had a Shot 2 in Alix's letters to Nicholas.

December 22, 1914
...Alexei and Shot have just gone off into the garden, it does him such good those walks.


Amazing colored fotos  by the most wonderful Yelena Aleksandrovna. Endless thank you very much!

Offline Lady Macduff

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Re: Aleksei had a dog named "Shot"?
« Reply #59 on: November 20, 2013, 06:35:03 PM »
Seems to be a thing with them. There were two Ortipos. Two Shvybziks if you count Anastasia. :)
We are sitting together as usual, but you are missing from the room. - AN