Author Topic: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir  (Read 264561 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

QueenEna1887

  • Guest
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #450 on: March 30, 2012, 10:35:56 PM »
Ohhhhhhhhhh so thats why she encouraged the match between the Czar and Alix and I always thought she supported it because both she and Alix were Germans, but oh Gotcha now...so conniving.

bestfriendsgirl

  • Guest
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #451 on: March 31, 2012, 07:18:51 AM »
That's just plain ugly! I feel for Alix even more than I did before!

Offline Vecchiolarry

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 759
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #452 on: March 31, 2012, 09:57:30 AM »
Hi,

My goodness what a lot of vindictive acid is being poured on poor old Aunt Meichen.....
She may have not been the nicest person in the world or even the Romanovs, but can we not say something positive about her - -
like the hospital train she manned in Southern Russia, or promoting art, architecture, music and theater.

Personally, I'd have loved to have been at one of her dinner parties;  and that Grand Duchess who became a nun would have bored the socks off me.
Give me glamour and not drudgery!!!

Larry

Eric_Lowe

  • Guest
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #453 on: April 01, 2012, 08:11:43 AM »
Miechen could be a good and loyal friend, but you don't want to face her in the ring. She was clever and once Bismark called her "the cleverest girl in Germany". she came with ambition to Russia (unlike Dagmar who was quite awed by the scope of the glamor). After the marriage she became the best eyes and ears in Europe, and so much so that she was accused for being a spy for Germany. The praise from Bismark didn't help either. After Alix married Nicholas, Miechen tried to be a mentor to her, but was rebuffed. After that Miechen became the young Empress's fiercest critic. Once after a successful ball at her palace, she told her guest she relay back to the court, that "that is how things should be done !"

Maria_Pavlovna

  • Guest
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #454 on: April 01, 2012, 08:23:11 AM »
^ Also the Grand Duchess Vladimir was VERY unforgiving. even just once cross her, and your her enemy for life.

she never forgave Empress Alix for been quite nasty for the marriage of Grand Duke and Grand Duchess Kyrill, also for the proposal of Grand Duke Boris to her daughter Olga Nikolaievna.  I wouldn't want Boris to marriage Olga either, age difference is a  bit too much and for his womanizing even thought he was a nice guy.

Eric_Lowe

  • Guest
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #455 on: April 01, 2012, 03:08:58 PM »
It is interesting that Miechen wasn't that friendly with Ducky even after she married Kyril. She was far closer with Missy (Queen Marie of Romania).

Offline Kalafrana

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2912
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #456 on: April 02, 2012, 04:02:53 AM »
Miechen had her good points, but she was very much a formidable female.

In the right place, with a suitable role, formidable females can be a very good thing (I know quite a few, and come from a family which produces them!), but Miechen didn't really have a serious role, so her organising abilities got diverted into ambition and intrigue.

Ann

Eric_Lowe

  • Guest
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #457 on: April 02, 2012, 08:59:56 AM »
Not an easy person to get along with and expected to be obeyed. She even got into a tiff with Ella...

QueenEna1887

  • Guest
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #458 on: April 02, 2012, 11:16:43 PM »
She just got into a tiff with just about anybody....yes she was formidable and intelligent, but her ambitious turned from lust to obsession which made her very dangerous.  She was elegant however but did not seem to me very happy with herself or role so she had to critique people. Most likely she didnt like Ducky for her being related to Queen Victoria, but I dont understand how she liked Missy when both women were from the British royal family. Who knows?

Offline CountessKate

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1085
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #459 on: April 03, 2012, 10:38:49 AM »
She just got into a tiff with just about anybody....yes she was formidable and intelligent, but her ambitious turned from lust to obsession which made her very dangerous.  She was elegant however but did not seem to me very happy with herself or role so she had to critique people. Most likely she didnt like Ducky for her being related to Queen Victoria, but I dont understand how she liked Missy when both women were from the British royal family. Who knows?

I don't think Ducky's relationship to Queen Victoria was a factor, as the Edinburgh girls were her nieces by marriage and she had known them since their birth without showing any interest in how they interacted with QV.  Ducky's divorce made both of Kyrill's parents dubious about his marriage to Ducky, but they took it pretty well on the whole and even had a monumental row with Nicholas over the deprivation of his title and banishment from Russia.  When Kyrill and his wife returned to Russia with titles restored, she had a perfectly amicable relationship with her daughter-in-law.  However, Marie of Romania wrote that during the war she was "in constant correspondence" with Marie Pavlovna "about the exchange of prisoners, etc.  She was a very important lady in Petersburg and very eager that we should come in on the Russian side" (as Romania was neutral at the time). This suggests that Marie Pavlovna's preference for her niece Marie may have been because Marie of Romania had political influence and was a future queen, so worth cultivating in a more obvious way than she would her daughter-in-law.  Marie of Romania was unquestionably dazzled by her aunt's personality and social prominance, and perhaps rather overestimated her overall importance.

Eric_Lowe

  • Guest
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #460 on: April 03, 2012, 12:20:38 PM »
Indeed. Missy did end up on the winning side and able to help her less fortunate relatives. Also Missy had a more sunny deposition than the moody Ducky. But then Alicky did not like either of them...

Offline jehan

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 260
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #461 on: April 30, 2012, 07:14:20 PM »
One must not forget Miechen was one of those who persuaded Alix of Hesse to marry Nicholas. She did it for sinister reasons (Alix's family has the dreaded "family" disease, and that will increase the chances of her sons to move closer to the throne). Nonetheless she was successful. She also played matchmaker for "Foxy" Ferdinand of Bulgaria.

What is your source for this?  I have read a great deal about the Romanovs and have never heard this before.  And if there is a source, I wonder how accurate it is? 
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in. 
(leonard Cohen)

Eric_Lowe

  • Guest
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #462 on: May 01, 2012, 01:02:36 PM »
It was recorded in many books. It was Miechen & Kaiser Wilhelm that spoke to Alicky and finally she said yes.

Offline jehan

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 260
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #463 on: May 01, 2012, 08:56:20 PM »
It was recorded in many books. It was Miechen & Kaiser Wilhelm that spoke to Alicky and finally she said yes.

I know that .  It's just MP's motivations I was wondering about,  Did she ever tell anyone (verbally or in writing) that that was the reason she wanted the marriage, or is it just others projecting possible motivations on to her?
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in. 
(leonard Cohen)

Maria_Pavlovna

  • Guest
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-elder, wife of GD Wladimir
« Reply #464 on: May 01, 2012, 10:35:29 PM »
From one source is that MP known that Alix maybe a carrier and have a sickly son, did come true. so that her own sons will be closer to the throne. by this point of 12 years of Romanov History i find MP to be an almost evil woman.