Author Topic: Why Are the Romanovs Still So Popular 90 Years After Their Deaths?  (Read 39017 times)

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Jebediha

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I find the last imperial family of Russia very interesting.

But i sometimes wonder, how is it that 90 years after their deaths they are still popular ?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 11:33:20 AM by Alixz »

Offline Michael HR

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Re: How come 90 years after
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2008, 11:51:27 AM »
How long have you got...?
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Offline pandora

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Re: How come 90 years after
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2008, 04:19:54 PM »
I find the last imperial family of russia very intersting. But i somtimes wonder. How is it that 90 years after there death they are still popular ?


The Imperial Family have a mystic even to this day; they were abundantly wealthly, they were royalty, and they had beautiful children. For me, that's only a small portion of the interest I have in them.

Offline imperial angel

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Re: How come 90 years after
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2008, 04:34:31 PM »
They were also tragic- so much going for them, and it didn't save them.In addition to the great list of things the last poster mentioned. People are always drawn to tragedy as well as to beauty, money, and youth. A story that combines so many of these things is bound to get people interested, perhaps pondering the question why if they had so much, did it end like that? It is an entertaining story and the world never ties of those, 90 years or 900 years.It certainly isn't for poltical reasons that an interest in them carries on.

Offline Rodney_G.

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Re: How come 90 years after
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2008, 05:28:10 PM »
'How long have you got " indeed!

Innocence(for the very most part) destroyed; remarkable beauty; youth(5 of them); glamorous life; femininity; unbelievable tragedy; ideal family(together til the end); killed by loathsome savages; mysterious , unusual death; exotic land( for non-Russians); all of the above, of course in effect compounded by the combinations of all of them.
But I think, unfortunately, the primary attraction is their death. The awful  senseless killing of the good and innocent, especially children and especially females , arouses a very powerful human and moral sympathy at all times. I couldn't explain the deeper psychological and emotional component of that, but I think that , in some way , is what's at play. In the end  I think the appeal is basic human sympathy.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 05:05:34 PM by Alixz »
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Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: How come 90 years after
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2008, 05:36:48 AM »
Dont forget the act of Regicide, probably regarded as one of the most vilest of crimes.
Their murders shook the foundations of the European class system, and many say that it is still shaking tiday.
Honour all men.
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Honour the king.
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Offline Felicia

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Re: How come 90 years after
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2008, 11:48:43 AM »
I think, the Romanovs popularity have been increased since the 1991, when USSR disappeared.
And people, fed up with communistic ideas, started to seek in the past - and what they've found? royal family, murdered by communists - the object of hate in 90s. This topic became unforbidden, and the interest rose up.
I'm sorry for possible mistakes

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: How come 90 years after
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2009, 02:00:35 PM »
I think, the Romanovs popularity have been increased since the 1991, when USSR disappeared.
And people, fed up with communistic ideas, started to seek in the past - and what they've found? royal family, murdered by communists - the object of hate in 90s. This topic became unforbidden, and the interest rose up.

I think there are probably a multitude of reasons. I know when Bob first developed the APTM there were times when we felt that we were the only ones who were so interested in the Imperial Family. But time and the world wide web have proven otherwise - much to our (mostly) delight and surprise. For many, the legend of a beautiful young princess who miraculously survived the evil slaughter of her family was the initial interest.

I don't know that everyone hates the Communists. I certainly hate many of the things they did, but they had no monopoly on evil and we must remember many Communists were very idealistic and sincerely loved Russia and Marxism.

Offline Elisabeth

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Re: How come 90 years after
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2009, 03:20:33 PM »
I don't know that everyone hates the Communists. I certainly hate many of the things they did, but they had no monopoly on evil and we must remember many Communists were very idealistic and sincerely loved Russia and Marxism.

Like two generations of my male relatives. They belonged to the British upper middle class, were wealthy and privileged, and yet both father and one son became communists in the decades immediately following the October Revolution. I can understand their idealism up to and especially during the 1930s, when the Soviet Union for a time seemed to be the only world power ready to stand up to Hitler. But after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact of 1939, when Hitler and Stalin signed a non-aggression treaty and carved up Poland between themselves (thereby starting World War II), it's hard to come up with excuses for Western communists who remained communists... It's here that we see that communism really was more of a religion, that is, faith-based, than a worldview based on reason (hence the title, The God That Failed for a collection of essays by disillusioned, former communists in the West, including Arthur Koestler and Richard Wright).

It's true, of course, that the other and quite numerous evils of Stalinism were not a matter of common knowledge outside of the Soviet Union until Khrushchev's famous speech in 1956. But other, one could even argue,  equally significant events also unfolded during these years. When the Soviets sent in their army to crush the Hungarian revolution that same year and the Czech Velvet Revolution in 1968, these were both horrific events that were broadcast all over the international (including the Soviet) media... Indeed, droves of Western Communists left the party after 1939, again after the events of 1956, and yet again after the events of 1968. And then in the early 1970s there was the publication in the West of Solzhenitsyn's exposé of the Soviet concentration camps established under Lenin and Stalin, Gulag Archipelago. That book singlehandedly destroyed the French Communist party overnight. Yet some die-hard fanatics in Western Europe remained true believers in Communism... among them at least one relative of mine. There's no amount of reasoning that will reach such people, IMHO, they would have been members of the Spanish Inquisition if they'd been born in the sixteenth century.

Sorry, I decided to delete the end of my post. I'd prefer that if anyone who saw it, forbears to comment on it. I'd like these ideas to remain my own.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 03:43:30 PM by Elisabeth »
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Offline Greenowl

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Re: How come 90 years after
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2009, 06:52:37 PM »
Thanks for those interesting comments! Just one small correction: The Czech Velvet Revolution took place in November 1989. It was the Prague Spring that was crushed by the USSR in 1968.

Cheers,
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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: How come 90 years after
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2009, 07:19:41 PM »
I don't know that everyone hates the Communists. I certainly hate many of the things they did, but they had no monopoly on evil and we must remember many Communists were very idealistic and sincerely loved Russia and Marxism.

Like two generations of my male relatives. They belonged to the British upper middle class, were wealthy and privileged, and yet both father and one son became communists in the decades immediately following the October Revolution. I can understand their idealism up to and especially during the 1930s, when the Soviet Union for a time seemed to be the only world power ready to stand up to Hitler. But after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact of 1939, when Hitler and Stalin signed a non-aggression treaty and carved up Poland between themselves (thereby starting World War II), it's hard to come up with excuses for Western communists who remained communists... It's here that we see that communism really was more of a religion, that is, faith-based, than a worldview based on reason (hence the title, The God That Failed for a collection of essays by disillusioned, former communists in the West, including Arthur Koestler and Richard Wright).

It's true, of course, that the other and quite numerous evils of Stalinism were not a matter of common knowledge outside of the Soviet Union until Khrushchev's famous speech in 1956. But other, one could even argue,  equally significant events also unfolded during these years. When the Soviets sent in their army to crush the Hungarian revolution that same year and the Czech Velvet Revolution in 1968, these were both horrific events that were broadcast all over the international (including the Soviet) media... Indeed, droves of Western Communists left the party after 1939, again after the events of 1956, and yet again after the events of 1968. And then in the early 1970s there was the publication in the West of Solzhenitsyn's exposé of the Soviet concentration camps established under Lenin and Stalin, Gulag Archipelago. That book singlehandedly destroyed the French Communist party overnight. Yet some die-hard fanatics in Western Europe remained true believers in Communism... among them at least one relative of mine. There's no amount of reasoning that will reach such people, IMHO, they would have been members of the Spanish Inquisition if they'd been born in the sixteenth century.

Sorry, I decided to delete the end of my post. I'd prefer that if anyone who saw it, forbears to comment on it. I'd like these ideas to remain my own.


I'm sorry I didn't see it - you have such intelligent things to say to us.

I agree with your insight that Western Communists in particular tend to be quite fanatical (and for me, quite scary, actually), especially those who remained Communist long  after the word was out.

Alixz

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Re: How come 90 years after
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2009, 11:00:32 PM »
Communism has been given a bad name and an even worse definition by those who twisted and abused the very ideas that they were supposed to believe in.

There was an ideal to communism and the leveling of life's playing fields.

However, whether or not Lenin would have remained true to the core values will never be known as he died so soon after the revolution.  Stalin on the other hand was a worse tsar than any tsar except perhaps Ivan the Terrible.

The difference now in whether or not the world and the people believe in what they are told is that the media is global and instantaneous.  In past centuries and even in the beginning of the 20th century, news took much longer to circulate and was not immediately accessible to all.

It is very hard to "put one over" on the world's population when CNN and all of its sisters are filming and broadcasting as the incident happens.

So I believe that the interest in the Romanovs and their lives and fates became more interesting 90 years later because of the access to information that we all now have.

Also, perhaps the generation before us was more pragmatic and too busy fighting WWII to think much about a dynasty that was dead and gone.  The effect of The Great War on Europe and the causes of WWII had not been so closely investigated as they have been now.

With the fall of the Soviet Union and the release of more and more information from GARF, the Romanovs are more real to us 90 years later than they had been to their subjects during their life time.

Just one more thought.  Can you imagine CNN and Reuters and every other media outlet with a satellite truck parked outside of Ipatiev House waiting to see what was going to happen the the imprisoned Imperial Family?  I doubt that King George V would ever have been able to "not insist" on helping them.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 11:05:32 PM by Alixz »

Offline Elisabeth

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Re: How come 90 years after
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2009, 01:13:04 PM »
Communism has been given a bad name and an even worse definition by those who twisted and abused the very ideas that they were supposed to believe in.

There was an ideal to communism and the leveling of life's playing fields.

However, whether or not Lenin would have remained true to the core values will never be known as he died so soon after the revolution.  Stalin on the other hand was a worse tsar than any tsar except perhaps Ivan the Terrible.

Communism has not been given a "bad name," Alix. It earned its own bad name, just as Nazism did. As far as I'm concerned, it was, is, and always will be the fascism of the proletariat, the fascism of the far left. It's despicable and hypocritical. It touts high ideals, like equality and egalitarianism, at the very same time that it celebrates violence and bloodshed. This is apparent even in the works of Marx. In fact, according to Marx, the only way to realize these high ideals is through "class warfare." Roughly translated, "class warfare" means violence and bloodshed... moreover, directed against the most successful, productive, I would even go so far as to say the most intelligent and able, segment of the popuation: the bourgeoisie.

Furthermore, Stalin was a far, far worse ruler than Ivan the Terrible. It's true that Stalin took Ivan IV as his mentor. He actually scribbled the word "uchitel'" ("teacher") over Eisenstein's screenplay of his famous film about Ivan. At the same time, Stalin also said that Ivan did not succeed in his (murderous) goals because "God disturbed him," i.e., Ivan's faith in God inhibited him when it came to killing all his "enemies" because God awakened Ivan's conscience. (This is apparently true: according to the historical record, Ivan would occasionally experience bouts of remorse in which he would order masses said for his victims in the Russian Orthodox Church.) But whereas we (I am speaking only for those of us with consciences) would see this as a sign that Ivan was not completely lacking in humanity, Stalin viewed Ivan's remorse as a sign of weakness.

By the way, Hitler was a great admirer of Stalin. (Indeed, the two of them formed a mutual admiration society back in the 1930s and generally borrowed from each other lots of great ideas about the efficient elimination of perceived enemies, without, of course, ever acknowledging the ultimate source of those ideas!) Hitler is even on the record telling his Nazi cronies that Stalin was a true revolutionary, completely free of bourgeois hang-ups about violence - unlike himself, Hitler. Poor, poor Hitler. It seems he considered himself too kind, a real softie by comparison with Stalin!

As for the rest of your post, Alix, about the imperial family if they were being held prisoner in this day and age, with the 24-hour news cycle on CNN and all the other cable news network channels, I agree with you completely. Not only would the British king have flown to the rescue of his threatened Russian relatives, but the Bolsheviks themselves would never have dared shoot their imperial captives in cold blood, with all the world acting as witnesses... And just think about the tremendous difficulties involved in disposing of eleven corpses whilst being filmed for a live international audience ... No, today this sort of thing wouldn't happen. Only terrorists, lunatics, and serial killers can get away with mass murder nowadays, and even then, it's a crapshoot.

So, we must all admit, in the last century the world has improved quite dramatically in some very important respects.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 01:24:56 PM by Elisabeth »
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Offline Rodney_G.

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Re: How come 90 years after
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2009, 01:51:30 PM »
 Hear, hear.
Rodney G.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: How come 90 years after
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2009, 02:53:17 PM »
Communism is an economic theory that has never been achieved on a large scale. Politicians of every ilk corrupt and warp good ideals. Not just Soviets and Nazis.
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