Fiddler On The Roof

[Akira Takahashi]

Off topic, but here's an interesting article regarding the real Von Trapp family.  http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2005/winter/von-trapps.html

That said, while I still love The Sound of Music, it's very apparent that Fiddler on the Roof is much closer to the truth.

[Greenowl]

Thanks for that link!

Actually I think that the life of the real Von Trapp family was FAR more interesting than the fictional version portrayed in the musical.

[Janet_W.]

Agreed, considering all the angst that Maria provided.

[Janet_W.]

Actually, I should have said "the angst she brought about."

I love the film.  I'm also aware--as are a lot of us, I'm sure--that the actual Maria von Trapp could be a real "problem"--far more problematic than the song suggested. Yes, she motivated the family and in many ways was their savior. But she was also domineering, dictatorial, and self-aggrandizing. Many years ago--before I had some awareness of how egocentric and damaging Maria von Trapp could be--I happened to talk with someone from Stowe, Vermont, and immediately asked her about her hometown's most famous citizen. "Well you know she's often referred to by those of us who've dealt with her as the Stowe [pregnant doggie]," said the woman. Then, no doubt seeing my face fall, she quickly said something to modify her comment. Years later I read accounts by and about the von Trapp children, as well as interviews with those who had known Maria, and I realized the comment that had startled me so much had strong justification.

[Greenowl]

Well, it sort of makes sense, as the Maria portrayed in the musical was just a bit too good to be true!! An interesting aside is the fact that when Empress Zita moved to America in July 1940 to escape the Nazis, the Baron wrote to her and she actually honoured the family with a visit. There is a photo of the Empress and the Baron together, which I saw in Erich Feigl's book "Kaiserin Zita. Kronzeugin eines Jahrhunderts (1989)", the caption of said photo being "Two Legends". It would be amusing to know how Maria treated the Empress! Another curious snippet of information that I gleaned from the Internet is that apparently Maria's eldest daughter was born a mere three months after the marriage (of course the Internet is not always a reliable source, thus it may not be true)....hence maybe the Baron had to marry her in view of the morals of the day! The same article claimed that Maria had numerous miscarriages (apparently due to poor health as a result of kidney problems), the last one being several months after her husband's death.... but this thread is supposed to be about "Fiddler on the Roof"...now, how do we get it back on topic??

[Vecchiolarry]

Hi,

Thanks, Greenowl, for that interesting information on the Von Trapps and the Empress...  Great stuff.

Fiddler back on track - -
1) It would be interesting to know what happened to the sisters.  The one who married the revolutionary and the one who married the Russian soldier...
2) Also, whee did the village all go?  Some to America, but what about the old yenta and Lazer Wolf?
3) What happened to the village after that - did the Russians burn it, loot it or resettle it with Russians???

Larry

[Greenowl]

Good questions Larry!

Obviously as the characters are fictional we will never know the answer to the first, as they ceased to exist after Sholom Aleichem stopped writing about them.

When they were forced out of a town (or shtetl) the people either went to America or took up residence in another shtetl. Due to the very strong "us-them" shtetl mentality based on the differences between the peoples, we tend to forget that non-Jews (Goyim) also lived there. In fact the population of such towns and villages was rarely more than 50% Jewish, thus after the Jewish inhabitants were driven out, the Goyim (Poles, Russians, Ukrainians etc, depending on where the shtetl was located) continued to live there. The land was mainly owned by the local nobility, so they would have found new tenants among the remaining inhabitants. I expect there would have been some looting on the part of the soldiers and the local inhabitants, although as the majority of Jews in such towns were very poor, there probably would not have been a great deal to steal. I’m not an expert in this area, but that is my (uneducated) guess about what probably happened in such circumstances.

[Vecchiolarry]

Thanks Greenowl,

Your guess sounds more educated than uneducated and was most probably the fate of the village.

I always lied "Fiddler on the Roof" and would love to have a sequel to the next generation.  But, sometimes sequels are abominable, so best left un discovered, I guess.

Cheers,
Larry

[Greenowl]

Hi Larry,

if you like "Fiddler on the Roof" you should read the novel "Hiob" (I think "Job" is the English title) by Joseph Roth if you have not already done so. It is a wonderful book with a similar theme to that of "The Fiddler"....part of the family actually does emigrate to America and the end of the novel is what happens to them there. Although many of Joseph Roth's novels were made into films I don't think that "Hiob/Job" has appeared on screen yet, which is a pity, as in my view it is one of his best. Enjoy!!!

[CorisCapnSkip]

Yes indeed, that thought occurred to me too...i.e. while both musicals amassed a great deal of money (and probably continue to do so) neither the von Trapp family nor Scholem Alejchem (who died in 1916) ever profited from them financially.

They certainly do, if you took a look at how we paid through the nose for them and the other shows we have done!

[CorisCapnSkip]

I hope your theater company's production of "Fiddler on the Roof" goes well, CorisCaptSkip!

ALL SHOWS SOLD OUT!  http://www.libertytheater.org/fiddler.htm

[CorisCapnSkip]

Fiddler back on track - -
1) It would be interesting to know what happened to the sisters.  The one who married the revolutionary and the one who married the Russian soldier...

Very interesting to me as well.  Chava and Fyedka (daughter #3 and her Russian husband) at the end announce plans to move to Cracow.  The other night on PBS a show aired called Rape of Europa--fascinating, see it if you can--which touched on the destruction of Cracow during WWII and also said a lot about Russia.  It occurred to me these people would still be alive then and would see some interesting times if they stayed.

2) Also, whee did the village all go?  Some to America, but what about the old yenta and Lazer Wolf?

In the stage version, Yenta announces plans to go to the Holy Land and Lazar Wolf to "Chicago, in America."  I'm not sure how much of this is in the movie, as, to tell the truth, I haven't watched it all through in years, but I do remember parts of the end material from the movie so this could be in as well.  There was no Israel in the Holy Land at the time, but many Jews migrated to Palestine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah so it would be interesting to know how far Yenta got and how well she did there.

3) What happened to the village after that - did the Russians burn it, loot it or resettle it with Russians???

Larry

It wasn't clear what their intentions were for the village, or even if it was the village they wanted, so much as to get the Jews out.  It is known that the filmmakers had a hell of a time finding a place to film the movie--not so much because of the Russians as because of the Nazis!  As detailed in this program Rape of Europa, the Nazis HATED anything either Jewish or Slavic and wanted to stomp out every trace of it.  They burned every quaint little village fitting the description of Anatevka.  At last they found what they wanted in Yugoslavia.  Luckily the ruler at the time was mad on films and let them make it there despite the movie being critical of Russian policies which made the Russians unhappy.

As far as Yenta and the matchmaking business--there was at least one professional matchmaker still alive and well in New York as recently as 10 or 12 years ago, profiled, with other American eccentrics, in the book Holding On, by David Isay and Harvey Wang.

[Greenowl]

ALL SHOWS SOLD OUT!  http://www.libertytheater.org/fiddler.htm

Congratulations, CorisCapnSkip! I'm delighted to hear that it has been such a success.

[Vecchiolarry]

Hi CorisCapnSkip,

Congratulations on your successful stage presentation....

And, thank you very much for enlightening myself and all of us on the probable fates of those Jews chronicalled in the play.
I think it is a wonderful play and movie and my favourite part is the wedding - "Sunrise, Sunset", that is a beautiful song!!

Larry

[CorisCapnSkip]

Yes, Larry, I have loved these songs since the movie came out when I was a child (about the age of the youngest sister in the film.)  It is such a thrill to have a part in performing them with people who do so brilliantly!