Author Topic: Alexei and Hemophilia  (Read 211143 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

rskkiya

  • Guest
Re: Alexei and Hemophilia
« Reply #90 on: December 06, 2004, 11:14:25 AM »
Again

I am not persuaded by this essay and I find the fact that the author of it apparently has no real medical or related background to be highly suspicious. In my opinion, there is no evidence that Alexie had any blood condition other than Hemophilia.


rskkiya

helenazar

  • Guest
Re: Alexei and Hemophilia
« Reply #91 on: December 06, 2004, 11:25:24 AM »
Quote
Again

I am not persuaded by this essay and I find the fact that the author of it apparently has no real medical or related background to be highly suspicious. In my opinion, there is no evidence that Alexie had any blood condition other than Hemophilia.

rskkiya
I tend to agree.

sushismom

  • Guest
Re: Alexei and Hemophilia
« Reply #92 on: December 06, 2004, 03:42:08 PM »
In the mentioning of Queen Victoria's son Leopold, my medical facts may be wrong, but isn't hemophilia transmitted through the mother only (unless both parents carry the gene)? Isn't the gene passed to daughter from mother and not the father?

helenazar

  • Guest
Re: Alexei and Hemophilia
« Reply #93 on: December 06, 2004, 04:28:58 PM »
Quote
In the mentioning of Queen Victoria's son Leopold, my medical facts may be wrong, but isn't hemophilia transmitted through the mother only (unless both parents carry the gene)? Isn't the gene passed to daughter from mother and not the father?


When a male suffers from hemophilia it is passed on to his daughters via his X chromosome, so the daughter becomes either a carrier, or she may be a hemophiliac too if the mother is also a carrier and she inherits both hemphiliac X's from both her parents...

helenazar

  • Guest
Re: Alexei and Hemophilia
« Reply #94 on: December 06, 2004, 06:39:35 PM »
Quote
Question

Has anyone ever found evidence of hemophilia in Queen Victoria's family before Queen Victoria?

Does anyone know the odds of a random mutation?

Jeremy


Jeremy, as far as I know, there no evidence of hemophilia in QV's family before her. That still doesn't mean anything because a mutation could have easily happened. I don't think we have specific statistics for the random mutation because this is exactly what it is : random. IMHO all that needs to happen is for any kind of a mutation (only one base even) to occur in the area of the DNA sequence that codes for the specific blood clotting protein, and viola: you have a hemophilia gene. So not that outrageous of an idea to consider at all. This mutation could have occured in Victoria some time soon after her conception. I mean someone has to get it first in a given genetic line, why not Victoria...

Offline Belochka

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4447
  • City of Peter stand in all your splendor - Pushkin
    • View Profile
Re: Alexei and Hemophilia
« Reply #95 on: December 06, 2004, 09:50:45 PM »
The mutation of the gene which causes Hemophilia would have manifested in Queen Victoria's children in three ways:

1. The mutation could have occured in Queen Victoria's X chromosome at the time of her conception.

Under this scenario, Queen Victoria would have the defective gene and passed it on to some of her own offspring. She would have been the first to carry the Hemophiliac gene.

2. The mutation resulted because the X sperm had mutated.

By the second scenario Queen Victoria could never have introduced hemophilia to her offspring.

3. The mutation was a consequence of a mutation in Queen Victoria's X chromosome at the time of conception of the child.

Again with this scenario, Queen Victoria could not be held responsible for transmitting the Hemophilia gene. Only one child would have been affected. This was not the case.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Belochka »


Faces of Russia is now on Facebook!


http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/

Offline Belochka

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4447
  • City of Peter stand in all your splendor - Pushkin
    • View Profile
Re: Alexei and Hemophilia
« Reply #96 on: December 07, 2004, 12:00:15 AM »
It is the mtDNA which is more prone to mutations in the aged. Those mutations rates vary depending on the cell type.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Belochka »


Faces of Russia is now on Facebook!


http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/

Offline Belochka

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4447
  • City of Peter stand in all your splendor - Pushkin
    • View Profile
Re: Alexei and Hemophilia
« Reply #97 on: December 07, 2004, 12:18:25 AM »
When the mother is over 35, the risk of chromosomal disorders in the child increase at the time of conception. The most common genetic disorder in live births is Down's syndrome. This condition is caused by an extra chromosome (Trisomy 21).


Faces of Russia is now on Facebook!


http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/

Offline Labuanbajo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Alexei and Hemophilia
« Reply #98 on: December 12, 2004, 08:11:14 PM »
Where did the hemophiliac gene start in the family? If Queen Victoria carried the gene, which parent gave it to her? Some people have speculated that the gene arose through a spontaneous mutation. Others think that the Duke of Kent was not Victoria's father.

olga

  • Guest
Re: Alexei and Hemophilia
« Reply #99 on: December 13, 2004, 07:36:25 AM »
It appears the gene did arise in Queen Victoria through mutation.

Are there rumours regarding Victoria's paternity?

helenazar

  • Guest
Re: Alexei and Hemophilia
« Reply #100 on: December 13, 2004, 05:18:14 PM »
Quote
It appears the gene did arise in Queen Victoria through mutation.

Are there rumours regarding Victoria's paternity?


Yes, there is a book called "Victorians" by Wilson, if I remember correctly. This author claims that Victoria was probably an illegitimate child of John Conroy, her mother's alleged lover. But as far as we know, John Conroy did not suffer from hemophilia either - if this is the way this author thinks the gene was passed to Victoria. I am pretty sure a mutation was the culprit and not Vic's mother's illicit affair, as Victoria definitely has that unmistakable "Hanoverian" look  ;D.

helenazar

  • Guest
Re: Alexei and Hemophilia
« Reply #101 on: December 13, 2004, 05:23:36 PM »
Quote
[ As far as the info I have been give...if my sons have daughters there is a 50/50 chance that they will be carries, just as there is with my daughter...now I may have been told wrong...You hear some much about it and have to sift through it and see what the deal really is. I pray my sons have sons and my daughter is not a carrier so that this will leave our family forever...but you look at the odds and I have about half a chance of that happening. ]

   Sorry, but all of your sons' daughters will definitely be carriers. The chances are 100 percent. The hemophilia gene is on the X chromosome and your sons would only be able to pass on their affected X chromosome to their daughters. All of their sons would be completely healthy and unaffected unless Mom happens to be a hemophilia carrier. Your daughter does have a 50 percent chance of being a carrier.

   Hemophilia is not passed on by both parents -- no recessive genes. It's always passed on by a carrier mother or, indirectly, by a hemophiliac father. If there was a mutation, it would have been in your grandmother's genes, not your grandfather's.


Yes bookworm, is absolutely correct: if the father is a hemophiliac, all his daughters will be carriers because he only has one X chromosome to pass to his daughters - the X with hemophilia. And since the Y chromosome is not affected at all, none of the sons will be affected.

Offline AGRBear

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6611
  • The road to truth is the best one to travel.
    • View Profile
    • Romanov's  Russia
Re: Alexei and Hemophilia
« Reply #102 on: December 29, 2004, 02:44:48 PM »
In the book THE ESCAPE OF ALEXEI, SON OF TSAR NICHOLAS II by Petrov, Lysenho and Egorov they describe the claimant Vasily Filatov as having p. 122  "hemiparesis of the muscles", therefore, the IF family doctors had been in error saying Alexei had hemophilia.  

Can this hemiparesis have the same symtoms as hemophilia?

Let me add here,   I think Filatov appears to have been too short to be Alexei,  however,  I am curious about their claim about the similarities of hemiparesis and hemophilia /haemohilia.

Thanks

AGRBear

PS:

On another thread I was asking about Alexei's condition on the night of 16/17 July 1918 and why it was reported that Nicholas II carried his son to the basement:

Quote

Am I mistaken when most have claimed Alexei couldn't walk and this is why Nicholas II carried him?  Could Alexei walk?  Had he recovered by this time?   [Note: By recovery,  I assume this doesn't mean he was able to run and jump.]

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Pravoslavnaya

  • Guest
Re: Alexei and Hemophilia
« Reply #103 on: December 29, 2004, 07:05:19 PM »
Quote
In the book THE ESCAPE OF ALEXEI, SON OF TSAR NICHOLAS II by Petrov, Lysenho and Egorov they describe the claimant Vasily Filatov as having p. 122  "hemiparesis of the muscles", therefore, the IF family doctors had been in error saying Alexei had hemophilia.  

Can this hemiparesis have the same symtoms as hemophilia?]

Dear AGRBear:

The term 'hemiparesis' refers to paralysis on one side, and as such does not refer to anything having to do with hemophilia.  There may be some confusion here due to word roots and medical terms.  It has been said that during Alexei Nikolaevich's last episode of hemophilia in Tobolsk, 1918,  the affected limb was paralyzed.  Furthermore, after the Spala episode in 1912, what the newspapers of the time referred to as 'tuberculosis of the hip' owed itself to a retroperitoneal hematoma in the hip joint - one of the four sites in the body most likely to sustain complications if a bleeding episode involves that joint.  The Tsarevich did limp later  on.

However, hemiplegia refers to paralysis or spasticity involving one half of the body, and has nothing to do with blood disease.  I am a female quadriplegic and there's no way I could have hemophilia!



[Let me add here,   I think Filatov appears to have been too short to be Alexei,  however,  I am curious about their claim about the similarities of hemiparesis and hemophilia /haemohilia.

Thanks

AGRBear]

Incidentally -- DNA tests paid for by the Filatov family proved conclusively that their father/grandfather was not the Tsarevich.


[PS:

On another thread I was asking about Alexei's condition on the night of 16/17 July 1918 and why it was reported that Nicholas II carried his son to the basement:



It is safe to assume that Alexei Nikolaevich still could not walk that night.  In the Tsar's last diary entry a few days before Nicholas mentioned that his son could just put his foot down.  As to the assertion that the lad might in fact have been 120 pounds since he was taller than his father -- The boy had always been on the thin side.  For muscular, it might do to read 'wiry', nothing but muscles and nerves, and convalescent at that.  The Tobolsk episode had in fact also involved not being able to keep food down.  Alexandra Feodorovna reported that her son was 'terribly thin and yellow'.

Offline AGRBear

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6611
  • The road to truth is the best one to travel.
    • View Profile
    • Romanov's  Russia
Re: Alexei and Hemophilia
« Reply #104 on: December 29, 2004, 08:31:48 PM »
What a great reply.

This answers a lot of questions all in one post.

As to his weight, well,  who knows for sure.  I was wiry as a kid and at 5'5''and  110 pounds which meant there was no fat whats-so-ever.... and Alexei at about 5'8'' would have been near death at 80 pounds,  I think.  Also,  when a sick person doesn't move around,  one doesn't lose weight  if still eating regular meals.....

Thanks.

AGRBear

PS:  Forgot to ask: "The Tobolsk episode had in fact also involved not being able to keep food down.  Alexandra Feodorovna reported that her son was 'terribly thin and yellow'."   Was this true of Alexei in June/July 1918 in  Ekaterinburg??
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152