Author Topic: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated  (Read 305097 times)

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Alixz

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #480 on: October 24, 2005, 08:17:44 AM »
I have always thought that the letter after the engagement was a "throwing in of the towel" on the part of the Tsar and Tsaritsa as well.
Again ( as I mentioned in the thread on the Language of Victorian Letters) everyone was gracious and loving and emotional in their letters to each other.

Once the engagement was a fact, Alix became a "dear Daughter" and MF wanted to be known as "motherdear" not "Aunty-Mamma"

MF probably figured she would be able to control Alix and "train her in the right way".  I don't imagine that anyone thought that Alix would dig in the way she did.
They probably all believed (as I always have) that the "no, I can not" over the religion was a big show!

But it did never occur to me that Alexander III was never trained to be Tsar and so therefore why would he know how to train his own son?  I had never read much about Nixa before "Little Mother of Russia"  I only knew that he had died and passed Dagmar on to his brother.

I wonder what kind of Tsar Nixa would have been and what kind of children he and Dagmar would have had?

Talk about divergent history!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Alixz »

Offline isabel

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #481 on: October 24, 2005, 02:53:35 PM »
You are right, Alexander III, was not trained to be the Tzar, but he had a strong character, and a very deffinated nature, when he took a decision he didn´t hesitate. I don´t think that Nicholas had the same nature. No.

About Nixa and Dagmar, it´s imposible to imagine how kind of children would they have, imposible.

But i really think that children she had with Alexander III, all five, with their defects and virtues, where good people after all.

I belive, that if they would not be the Tzar´s sons and daughters, they would have been more happy in their privates lifes.

Alixz

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #482 on: October 24, 2005, 05:52:57 PM »
Another thought just occured to me.  Why do we alsways look to asign blame to just one person over all others?
I have always believed that life is a general convergence of all things which are happening at the same time.

No one lives in a vacuum.  Not even Autocrats.  

I state again that I have never been a fan of Alix's, but as much of a lose cannon as she was, she could not have personally caused all of the troubles that brought down the dynasty.

Perhaps Romanov Autumn (which I am eagerly awaiting) shows that best.  For at least one hundred years before the Revolution, things began to move and converge and intertwine.  Each monarch and his consort contributed to the end, just as much as did Alixz and Nicky.

Offline koloagirl

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #483 on: October 24, 2005, 06:33:52 PM »
 :) ;)

Dear Alixz:

You'll love "Romanov Autumn"!

Janet R.   ;D
Janet R.

Alixz

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #484 on: October 25, 2005, 09:45:02 PM »
Koloagirl - I just found out that I won the auction.  It should be shipped very soon.
Thanks
Alixz

Offline Romanov_fan

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #485 on: November 09, 2005, 11:02:18 AM »
Yes, I believe that in history, no one is specifically to blame. Alexandra did contribute to the Revolution primarily because she overly trusted Rasputin, and allowed hom to play a role in goverment to which he was not suited. Also, she gave Nicholas bad advice, partly inspired by Rasputin, and influenced Nicholas in a bad direction. She insisted on Autocracy, even though it was not a good poltical system for Russia anymore. She lacked the temprament to make her popular with the Russian people. Then and now, royalty fare better if they have charisma. This is not say that Alexandra did not have some, but she was not able to express it where she needed to, in public. So she seemed very foreign and unapproachable to Russia's common people.

But she did suffer with Alexei's illness, and also with her own physical ailments. She was not understood by very many people, and no likes to feel they do not have understanding with people. She was very much alone, and she knew it. She, too had to bear the difficult burden of Russian politics of the time. Her son's illness tore her apart, both emotionally, and physically. So you have to grant her understanding. But Nicholas played a role, too, as did many others. I can't relate to Alexandra much, except people may not have understood me sometimes.But we should all attempt to understand the challenges that were faced by the last romanovs.

Anastasia_R

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #486 on: November 11, 2005, 03:00:58 PM »
I suggest reading "People Against Alexandra",has quite a few interesting points. ;)

Just to respond to the original post-a tad harsh!She spent quite a lot of time worried over Alexei,and you can't really blame the poor woman-her son had hemophelia,I'm sure any mother would rather stay home with their sick child rather than got to parties,etc.She was most certainly NOT stupid!She wanted a cure so badly for Alexei,and she truly believed he was a holy man.Do not blame her for ending the Romanov rule.Bluetoria-I must agree with what you said about the Tsarina living through a nightmare.

Sorry if my comments are a tad offensive.

Anastasia_R

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #487 on: November 12, 2005, 04:35:00 PM »
Wow...my brain is so dead right now..if I think of anything tonight I'll post.

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #488 on: November 12, 2005, 09:12:25 PM »
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Yes, I believe that in history, no one is specifically to blame. Alexandra did contribute to the Revolution primarily because she overly trusted Rasputin, and allowed hom to play a role in goverment to which he was not suited. Also, she gave Nicholas bad advice, partly inspired by Rasputin, and influenced Nicholas in a bad direction. She insisted on Autocracy, even though it was not a good poltical system for Russia anymore. She lacked the temprament to make her popular with the Russian people. Then and now, royalty fare better if they have charisma. This is not say that Alexandra did not have some, but she was not able to express it where she needed to, in public. So she seemed very foreign and unapproachable to Russia's common people.

But she did suffer with Alexei's illness, and also with her own physical ailments. She was not understood by very many people, and no likes to feel they do not have understanding with people. She was very much alone, and she knew it. She, too had to bear the difficult burden of Russian politics of the time. Her son's illness tore her apart, both emotionally, and physically. So you have to grant her understanding. But Nicholas played a role, too, as did many others. I can't relate to Alexandra much, except people may not have understood me sometimes.But we should all attempt to understand the challenges that were faced by the last romanovs.


Good points. Romanov_fan! I share completely your points of view.

RealAnastasia..

anna11

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #489 on: November 13, 2005, 11:28:14 AM »
Quote
Since you state with a certainty that Nicholas knew of the letters "written" to Alix to fool her into thinking that she was in touch with the Russian people, for the first time, I feel genuinely sorry for her.

I can not imagine being duped like that and by her own husband!

I have always thought that Nicholas should have put a muzzle on her, but he should have done it with dignaty
and with complete openess.

He was such a weak man.  With his ministers and with his wife.  


But to be betrayed by her own husband.  Even if she didn't know it, how awful!


I highly doubt it.
And about the revolution, she did play a role, but that isnt to say it was her fault if  you see the difference
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by anna11 »

Caleb

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #490 on: November 13, 2005, 04:45:08 PM »
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I just had to say a quick thing here about Rasputin 'healing' beautiful Alexei. In my opinion, that is absolute utter garbage! The only thing responsible for healing Alexei was the good Lord and saviour Jesus Christ. Half the time Alexei was well without Rasputin. I think Rasputin was a con man who deluded himself into thinking he was a man of God. And unfortunately, Alexandra fell for what Rasputin was selling.
I fully agree with you, that only Christ could heal Alexei. As far as Alexandra goes, I truly believe that she was a scapegoat if anything else. Not many of the people in Russia knew about her, except for what they had been told, and most of what was told on Alexandra was unflattering tissues of lies & gossip. When things go wrong in society, people wan't to blame other people instead of themselves in most cases, like in the case of the Dowager Empress of China, however fraud biographers were mostly responsible. Also another scapegoat, I personally believe, would be President Bush. Not to ramble, but I think he is a well  meaning man who just wants to do what's right in the eyes of God. Nobody ever said that doing the right thing would be popular!

Offline Romanov_fan

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #491 on: November 17, 2005, 11:56:54 AM »
Doing the right thing is never popular sometimes, but doesn't everyone differ as to what the right thing is? It is even worse to be misunderstood by your people, too as Empress Alexandra was. They never ''got'' her so to speak. She was foreign to them both literally and figuratively. Which is sad. I think people make mistakes but shouldn't be judged by these things, no one can claim perfection for a living leader or for one far back in history. Some people make mistakes, but also do incredibly wise things, too, in other times. Some seem just to make mistakes, with nothing redeeming.

Offline Margarita Markovna

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #492 on: December 19, 2005, 01:36:21 PM »
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Alexandra
Empress of Russia, became absolute ruler in her husband's absense (1915-1917)

She was born in 1872 in Darmstadt, the daughter of Alice, Queen Victoria's daughter, and Louis IV, duke of Hesse-Darmstadt. Darmstadt was located in present-day West Germany. Alexandra was often unbending and firm-willed with a strong and proud appreciation of her Teutonic blood. She married Nicholas II of Russia in 1894 and dominated their entire married like. She was not popular with the Russian people, who considered her a German interloper. As consolation, she immersed herself in religion; however, her interest in religion did not present her from exerting her influence to undo the 1905 reforms, which limited the powers of the monarchy. The couple had four daughters before their so Alexis, a hemophiliac, was born. The boy's perilous health also put the future of the dynasty in peril. Alexandra turned for advice to Grigory Yefimovich Rasputin, a self-proclaimed holy man upon whom she came to rely so heavily that her conduct became a public scandal. In August of 1915, when Nichoals left for the front to assume command of Russian troops, Alexandra moved quickly to consolidate her own power. She dismissed valuable ministers and replaced them with puppets, choices of Rasputin. The government soon became paralyzed, and Alexandra was further alienated from an already suspicious and mistrusting public. Alexandra apparently believed she was safely beyond justice, and even when Rasputin was murdered, she continued her despotic rule, giving public opinion no quarter. After the October Bolshevik Revolution, the entire family was imprisoned. On 29 July 1918, she was shot to death at Yekaterinburg, now Sverdlovsk, Russia. It might be concluded that she alone precipated the collapse of the military government in March of 1911 and thus hastened the beginning of the Bolshevik Revolution.


Women Who Ruled by Guida M. Jackson


This is kind of on topic. Thoughts?

Offline Georgiy

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #493 on: December 19, 2005, 01:41:17 PM »
I disagree with the idea that Alexandra was the 'absolute ruler'. She had, undoubtedly, influence on the Tsar, but in the end, he made the decisions, he was the ruler. Also, Rasputin couldn't have been 'self-proclaimed', or no one would have gone to him.  One doesn't go around calling oneself a starets - one gains a reputation as one and it becomes known by word of mouth.

Offline Margarita Markovna

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #494 on: December 19, 2005, 01:56:32 PM »
I agree with you Georgiy- it's what I was thinking while I read it. I also don't like how they blamed her completely for the October Revolution.