Alexandra - Slandered and Hated

[Alixz]

As I mentioned earlier, no one here knows the poster behind the post really well.  It may be that many here have children or other loved ones who are sick.  We just can't know unless they tell us.  So I would not assume that they never have been in Alexandra's position or had to make the same kinds of hard, personal choices.  Perhaps some of the posters' insights come from being in the same position and they stopped way short of making the kinds of decisions that Alexandra made in her attempt to "protect" her son.

But I do believe that there is limit to what any "sane" parent would do for a sick child or loved one and I think that Alexandra exceeded that limit when she turned to and trusted Rasputin.

That is not say that I think Alexandra was "insane"  I do not.  But I do believe that she lost her sense of perspective as the years passed.  She would not even listen to those in her family such as Grand Duchess Ella who only had her best interests at heart and who tried to talk to her about the path Alexandra had chosen.

I mentioned before that I see Alexandra as  "passive/aggressive" personality.  And I believe she was that, not only with Nicholas, but with everyone in her family until she, at last, simply withdrew from all reality and refused to listen.  She became convinced that "she was Empress and no one had the right to question her".   She knew best.

It was not only her interaction with Rasputin that led to her being "slandered and hated".  Many other things happened before Rasputin came into the lives of the Imperial Family which led to Alexandra gaining a bad reputation within the Imperial Family and also within the circle of the educated people of Russia.

[TimM]

But I do believe that there is limit to what any "sane" parent would do for a sick child or loved one and I think that Alexandra exceeded that limit when she turned to and trusted Rasputin

I think it was what happened at Spala that convinced her Rasputin had powers. Alexei was in agony, and all the doctors basically told Alix that he was going to die (a priest was brought in administer Last Rites).  No mother wants to hear that.  Then Rasputin sends a letter saying "He will not die", and Alexei starts to recover.  It was probably a coincidence, and maybe that would have happened anyway, but at the time, I can see why Alix would began to think Rasputin did it.  He said Alexei wouldn't die, and he didn't.  In Alix's mind, Rasputin saved her son's life.  That is why she came to trust his advice.

[Fyodor Petrovich]

It just dawned on me that my reaction to the new Duchess of Cambridge may be an indication of how the Russians viewed Alexandra as new imperial consort: Cold and haughty.
For all I Know Kate might be a very warm, engaging and charming person in private, and evidently she and William love each other, in a passionate but very private way à la Nicholas and Alexandra, but her public persona is cold, distant and haughty. And as long as she never opens her mouth and says anything or reaches out to anybody, we will continue to see her as cold and uninspiring. Both Alix and Kate are also inevitably compared to their extremely charming mothers-in-laws. (In Kate's case meaning Diana, not Camilla, even though even she appears more vibrant and inspiring compared to Kate!)

[Alixz]

It is interesting that according Ilana Miller, Irene was at Spala when that even took place.  We very seldom hear much about Irene or her visits to Nicholas and Alix.  Mostly we read about Ella, of course, and Victoria Battenburg.

I want to do some more research about Irene and her hemophiliac son Toddy as he lived fairly well and had a good life span.  Also Queen Victoria's son Leopold also lived a fairly long life span considering the hemophilia that he also had.

I wonder just how much Irene contributed to Alix's knowledge of the disease and how Irene dealt with it.  Two of her sons had hemophilia, one dying young and the other, Toddy, living longer.

I know I have also read that the telegram from Rasputin might not (like the supposed "End of My Life" letter) actually have been real or was real and reported incorrectly and then a mystique grew around it until it was unrecognizable from the original.

Also, even Massie says that the doctors spoke about the miraculous "recovery" and when asked if they had done anything to contribute to it said something to the effect that "had they done so, they would not have admitted it".  They were in fear for their reputations and their careers and also in fear of the Empress and her devotion of Rasputin and how if they questioned that devotion or admitted that they had actually helped in the "cure" that they would not be believed and thought to be lying as the Empress only wanted to believe in her "direct conduit" to God.  That being - Rasputin.

[Alixz]

I don't see the Duchess of Cambridge as cold and haughty.

One only has to watch her in a receiving line or on a walk about with Prince William to see her interaction with the crowds and how she looks people in the eye and reaches out to them.

I have seen her sit quietly while William talks and her body language indicates that she doesn't agree with all that he is saying (especially in the matter of Diana's engagement ring) but she has the sense to keep quiet.

Personally, I don't think that she truly wanted that "cursed ring".  Her body language indicated that she was stiff and uncomfortable while William waxed enthusiastic over giving Kate the ring and how it brought Diana into the festivities.  Honestly, I wouldn't have wanted it.  Why start a marriage with a ring that Diana picked out because it was the "biggest" in the tray.  Charles gave no thought to the purchase of that ring and there was nothing sentimental about it.

The marriage that it represented was a sham from the beginning and then it ended in divorce.  I have my grandmother's platinum wedding band and I love it for it's 1913 style, but I would never use it for my own band as that marriage also ended in divorce and, to me anyway, that is just not the kind of "luck" that one wants to begin a new marriage with.

But one can clearly see how much more tender William is with Kate than Charles was with Diana.  I think the people of the UK see that as well.

Of course, Nicholas and Alix lived in a time when public displays of affection were not the accepted thing.

[feodorovna]

Couldn't agree more, Alixz. Catherine appears to me like a woman who knows herself to be loved and supported by her man. Confidence in it radiates from her. Re THAT ring. When I first saw it I felt disappointed. Okay, it was VAST, but imo, ordinary!!!! I had expected something better-I don't mean pricier!!!-but I must allow that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. My feelings about it on this, its' second showing, haven't changed, if anything, I like it less because, again imo, it looks overly big on such small hand and frame. Diana was what Charles saw as "chubby" when he put it on her finger where it looked more balanced. However, given the length of their courtship and that they seem to be a totally united couple, I imagine the subject of a ring was one they would have discussed. It's possible that Catherine, knowing how much his mother meant to him, suggested it. How generous a gesture would that have been? Yet even if the suggestion had been Williams', who of us could have refused? THAT ring, to its' original owner, was about being in love, being loved and dreams of a happy future-and it's no different second time around. Still, as her body language suggested, she may secretly have yearned for something other than a huge sapphire!!!

[feodorovna]

Sorry, mods., totally off topic-many apologies

[Alixz]

feodorovna - I am a moderator and I went off topic, too.

We will try to do better and stay with Alexandra from now on!   :-)

[Fyodor Petrovich]

Couldn't agree more, Alixz. Catherine appears to me like a woman who knows herself to be loved and supported by her man. Confidence in it radiates from her.

Yeah, she radiates "I got my prince! Now leave us alone, subjects!" There is such a lack of humility, awe and wonder - those essential fairytale traits - in this creature, who so far has shown no signs whatsoever of any personality.

It's also funny how Duchess Kate, just like Alix, has a sister (Ella / Pippa) praised for her looks and a flamboyant, gayish brother (Ernst Ludwig / James)!

[Alixz]

Back to topic, please!

[Fyodor Petrovich]

Back to topic, please!

The Duchess of Cambridge's ring, which you started on about, has nothing to do with this topic, but I think it's interesting to compare Alexandra to Kate, regarding first impressions, especially since Alexandra often is compared to Marie-Antoinette, whose first impression also has been widely discussed.

Besides, what more is there to say about Alexandra now?

[delincolon]

But I do believe that there is limit to what any "sane" parent would do for a sick child or loved one and I think that Alexandra exceeded that limit when she turned to and trusted Rasputin

I think it was what happened at Spala that convinced her Rasputin had powers. Alexei was in agony, and all the doctors basically told Alix that he was going to die (a priest was brought in administer Last Rites).  No mother wants to hear that.  Then Rasputin sends a letter saying "He will not die", and Alexei starts to recover.  It was probably a coincidence, and maybe that would have happened anyway, but at the time, I can see why Alix would began to think Rasputin did it.  He said Alexei wouldn't die, and he didn't.  In Alix's mind, Rasputin saved her son's life.  That is why she came to trust his advice.
[/quote[/i]

There were many, many incidents of Alexei recovering after Rasputin's intervention, not just one.  The royals, servants and doctors witnessed many of these events.  In addition, Rasputin had been known as a healer in many towns and rural areas before he came to St. Petersburg, but even he stated that it wasn't he who did the healing, but God healed through him.  He just saw himself as a vehicle for God's work.  And he apparently had a facility for comforting people and easing their minds.

[Alixz]

If you have nothing more to say about Alexandra then find another thread or start one on comparing Kate to Alexandra.

I acknowledged that I went off topic.  My bad.

Now I am requesting that we all get back on.

[TimM]

Well, I have never hated Alix, and I hate seeing her trashed.  Fate dealt the poor woman a bad hand.

At least there is this board where people can come and honour her.  Her birthday is next Monday and I plan on honouring it.

[Clemence]

Nice gentle thought Tim, wish I could honour her birthday someway)