Author Topic: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated  (Read 303103 times)

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Offline TimM

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #810 on: June 01, 2011, 11:27:17 AM »
Quote
Nice gentle thought Tim, wish I could honour her birthday someway)

You can, you can post a birthday wish on the birthday thead for Alix.  I'm gonna do that.
Cats: You just gotta love them!

Selencia

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #811 on: July 26, 2011, 02:12:34 AM »
I don't hate Alexandra, but I do hate some of the things she did and wish she had done them differently. I also find myself wishing that Nicholas' parents would have stood firmer against him marrying Alix.

Naslednik

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #812 on: July 26, 2011, 05:48:25 PM »
Alexandra made decisions and sometimes carried herself in such a way that even today she can make us uncomfortable.  But she was a good, honorable woman.

Bad things can happen to good people.  I push myself to separate the bad outcome from the person him/herself.

Offline Clemence

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #813 on: August 11, 2011, 12:48:51 AM »
I don't know if it was ever discussed in this topic or elsewhere, but many times I find myself thinking about how different lives did AF and Marie - Dagmar had before their marriages. I mean, I believe dagmar came from a united family while alix gives me the impression she never really felt to belong somewhere. Which is why she grew so insecure and afraid of others and had the necessity to feel that her nicky was only hers! and why she had her children so tight around her even when they grew up.

sad!
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bestfriendsgirl

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #814 on: August 11, 2011, 08:43:21 AM »
I agree ... Alix had a tough life and very few people, outside of Nicholas, cut her any slack at all. I've always wanted to go to her and hold her and let her know that not everyone is against her, that some people like introverts, appreciate a Tsarina who has some morals and wants to do something besides party and gossip. Alix was one of the most misunderstood women in history and I think if more people had given her the benefit of the doubt, her life would have been much different.

feodorovna

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #815 on: August 12, 2011, 08:58:03 AM »
I don't know if it was ever discussed in this topic or elsewhere, but many times I find myself thinking about how different lives did AF and Marie - Dagmar had before their marriages. I mean, I believe dagmar came from a united family while alix gives me the impression she never really felt to belong somewhere. Which is why she grew so insecure and afraid of others and had the necessity to feel that her nicky was only hers! and why she had her children so tight around her even when they grew up.

sad!

I think you have made a very valid point. It's hard to imagine just how alone that small girl must have felt in a house decimated by grief. We know that Grandma Victoria took her under her own wing, but how good a role model was she for the child who would be Empress of all the Russias. Victoria, submerged in her own longterm grieving, reigned from behind the scenes, eschewing society and was on more intimate terms with her servants than with the aristocracy, something her Grandaughter was inclined towards. Might it be, that in Victoria, we see the image of the woman that Alexandra would become?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 09:50:42 AM by Alixz »

Offline Clemence

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #816 on: August 12, 2011, 02:29:24 PM »
not that QV had an easy happy childhood either ...
'' It used to be all girls without clothes. Now it’s all clothes with no girls. Pity.''

Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #817 on: August 13, 2011, 10:13:28 AM »
but how good a role model was she for the child who would be Empress of all the Russias. Victoria, submerged in her own longterm grieving, reigned from behind the scenes, eschewing society and was on more intimate terms with her servants than with the aristocracy, something her Grandaughter was inclined towards. Might it be, that in Victoria, we see the image of the woman that Alexandra would become?
Well said....I very much agree Queen Victoria must be considered when looking at Alix...in some ways , such as AF's  ideas  of royalty, that it is unassailable regardless of circumstances ...seemed old fashion for a woman of Alix's age. Certainly her own mother, Princess Alice,  did not hold that view.  But  it's to be remembered AF was brought up in good measure by someone much older than herself and who was also a  constitutional monarch. Following such an example may not have been useful for  the Empress of all the Russias in the 20th century .

I would  say one can even see QV influence in the sad look  Alix usually had when  photographed....as the Queen did the same. 

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Offline DNAgenie

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #818 on: August 13, 2011, 06:12:41 PM »
I don't agree that Alexandra would ever have become like Queen Victoria, as they were quite different personalities.  For one thing, QV had far more common sense than Alexandra.  They may have been similarly pig-headed, but QV was essentially pragmatic, and could listen to reason, where Alexandra was idealistic and believed what she wanted to believe, despite arguments (and evidence) to the contrary.

Queen Victoria never liked the idea of Alexandra marrying Nicholas and she feared that their marriage would be a disaster, and was she ever proved right!

historyfan

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #819 on: August 13, 2011, 08:48:24 PM »
I don't agree that Alexandra would ever have become like Queen Victoria, as they were quite different personalities.  For one thing, QV had far more common sense than Alexandra.  They may have been similarly pig-headed, but QV was essentially pragmatic, and could listen to reason, where Alexandra was idealistic and believed what she wanted to believe, despite arguments (and evidence) to the contrary.

Queen Victoria never liked the idea of Alexandra marrying Nicholas and she feared that their marriage would be a disaster, and was she ever proved right!

Not exactly.  The marriage wasn't a disaster.  QV liked "Nicky", and his marriage to her granddaughter was, in and of itself, highly successful.  What she didn't like was the Russians, and she predicted a difficult life for the two of them on that "thorny throne" - the Queen's words.  To that end, yes, she was indeed right (unfortunately).


Offline Clemence

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #820 on: August 14, 2011, 01:36:57 AM »
I don't agree that Alexandra would ever have become like Queen Victoria, as they were quite different personalities.  For one thing, QV had far more common sense than Alexandra.  They may have been similarly pig-headed, but QV was essentially pragmatic, and could listen to reason, where Alexandra was idealistic and believed what she wanted to believe, despite arguments (and evidence) to the contrary.

Queen Victoria never liked the idea of Alexandra marrying Nicholas and she feared that their marriage would be a disaster, and was she ever proved right!

Not exactly.  The marriage wasn't a disaster.  QV liked "Nicky", and his marriage to her granddaughter was, in and of itself, highly successful.  What she didn't like was the Russians, and she predicted a difficult life for the two of them on that "thorny throne" - the Queen's words.  To that end, yes, she was indeed right (unfortunately).



which is opinable: nicholas personality and role suffered the most by dearest alix's hysteric personality. love isn't always enough and the marriage was not only disastrous for nicky's nerves but also for their family and country.
'' It used to be all girls without clothes. Now it’s all clothes with no girls. Pity.''

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #821 on: August 14, 2011, 02:28:04 AM »
Nicholas and Alexandra had a happy marriage, so on a personal level it was far from disastrous. However, for Nicholas as a monarch, the marriage was a disaster. In particular, Alexandra's refusal to listen to reason and obsession with preserving the autocracy for Alexei was quite the worst influence on Nicholas.

Ann

feodorovna

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #822 on: August 14, 2011, 02:52:08 AM »
Not for one moment was I trying to say that Alexandra would have become like Queen Victoria. All children emulate the person who is their rolemodel, the person to whom they look for guidance. Alexandra experienced Victoria's duality in the roles of Darling Granny and Queen Empress and unknowingly would have absorbed all she perceived Victoria demonstrating. In later life, in moments of of self doubt, I imagine she asked herself how Granny would have dealt with the situation. The more I examine their personalities, the more similarities I see. Perhaps, as family resemblances often skip a generation, this is why Victoria was so fond of her. I feel that Victoria was much closer to Alexandra than she had been to A's mother Alice and possibly Alexandra was more receptive to Victoria's ideals than Alice had been. On an entirely flippant note-as Alexandra and Victoria were both Gemini. they both would have had equal amounts of idealism and pragmatism.

Offline Clemence

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #823 on: August 14, 2011, 03:59:56 AM »
try to immagine a friend of yours, today, who marries the woman he loves, loses his personality, his friends, his family because of her bad influence, finally loses his job! would you really think he has a succesfull marriage? come on!

try it with a politician and you can see how disaster is always that close - even without rasputin!
'' It used to be all girls without clothes. Now it’s all clothes with no girls. Pity.''

Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #824 on: August 14, 2011, 11:30:12 AM »
 
Nicholas and Alexandra had a happy marriage, so on a personal level it was far from disastrous. However, for Nicholas as a monarch, the marriage was a disaster. In particular, Alexandra's refusal to listen to reason and obsession with preserving the autocracy for Alexei was quite the worst influence on Nicholas.
Ann

Indeed...an obsession with preserving the autocracy for a little boy whose health would never permit him to even rule in any case ....it was hopeless and impossible from the moment they knew how ill he was....yet she went on and on . But I will say  Nicholas seem to want this influence and her amazing ability to block reality. I believe he was obsessed with preserving the autocracy of his father and this matched perfectly with Alix's desire to preserve the autocracy for their  son . Tsarism is a form of government that functions  via  direct action. But  N and A  used it as a means  keep things static. Eventually that is impossible, even if it was all for a healthy son.  Alexi's poor health however made this instance on preserving everything in amber even more  pointless and  from the moment they knew about his illness ...some weeks after his birth in 1904

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna