Author Topic: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated  (Read 293798 times)

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Offline Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #510 on: October 01, 2009, 04:23:09 AM »

That guy - by the way - smells like the former "AlexP"...................

One simply cannot state that Alexandra was responsible for the revolution. A single person..... the Russian Empire was a very complex and complicated political and bureaucratic system. The Empress's tasks were merely representative matters. Considering her bad health this is a job she did wonderfully and in a very modern way - working and paying much for charity and traveling around to see people instead of presiding balls.
The revolution would have come - even without Nicholas and Alexandra. Simply due to the fact Russia was an autocratic monarchy in the 20th century.....

To call Alexandra uneducated is simply ridiculous - and to refer to her hobbies like needlework and her talents as a musician as if they were a sign of stupidity shows your own deficiency regarding that subject.
Meine Kaiserin

Offline PAVLOV

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #511 on: October 01, 2009, 08:46:36 AM »
My apologies if I have offended you, but history speaks for itself, and this is a discussion forum, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. But the history books and letters speak for themselves. Her disastrous handling of her position as Empress of Russia is very well documented.  I am not
alone in my opinion of her. Read the letters from her family, members of the court etc, and the posts of many people who have done extensive research on the subject. She is well documented by many different people, and her unfavourable niche in history was not created by anyone other than herself, and is a direct result of her misconduct as Empress of Russia. Perhaps you should do a bit of research yourself.
I am very knowledgable about the subject I think,thank you. And no, I am not " that Alex P " guy ! ( ? )

I think Alex P is still around on this forum, is he not ? I think his posts are very valuable and informative. Has he dissappeared ?
 

Offline Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #512 on: October 01, 2009, 08:51:33 AM »

I should hope so...............
Meine Kaiserin

Offline PAVLOV

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #513 on: October 01, 2009, 09:56:26 AM »
Well that is self opinionated isnt it ?

To reply to a previous post. I dont hate Alexandra. I love Russia and all it stood and stands for. I very often spend months at a time in St Petersburg, especially in the summer.

I just think she was a contributing factor to the disaster, and despise her for it. She had the opportunity to make things better, and she made them worse. For a brief period she was the most powerful woman in the world.

To give her some credit. Perhaps she did not know what she was doing at the time. I think this came about perhaps because she had removed herself so far from the real world.

I recently found the following comment during my research. It was written  by a senior courtier, and a member of the entourage of Nicholas :

 "Not understanding that Sovereigns must pay with their persons for the priviledges of their position in the world, she spends her time in imploring her husband to put himself and his family into safety instead of urging him to come forward and to confront whatever danger lies before him. When it was said that the workmen of the capital were marching towards the Winter Palace and wanted to see their Tsar, Alexandra Feodorovna begged her husband to fly to Tsarskoe Tselo for safety, and she has never wanted to return to the capital since that fateful day.
Owing to her nervousnous the breach between the Sovereign and his people has become complete, and the estrangment that divides them has assumed proportions that can only become wider and wider as time goes by ".   

Also please note that I may open any post on this forum, even if it was 3 and a half years ago, and comment on it. I dont think there are any rules about that are there ? If so, please tell me where they are.
 

That is what keeps this forum alive and so interesting, peoples opinions of the subject, and everything related to it.   


RomanovsFan4Ever

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #514 on: October 01, 2009, 10:16:19 AM »
I just think she was a contributing factor to the disaster, and despise her for it. She had the opportunity to make things better, and she made them worse. For a brief period she was the most powerful woman in the world.

I have to agree with this, that brief period of power was indeed negative, not only for her reputation...sadly.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2009, 10:20:42 AM by RomanovsFan4Ever »

Alixz

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #515 on: October 01, 2009, 10:47:03 AM »
Whoa - I am one who occasionally refers to Alix as one can short of a six pack.  A few ants short of a picnic.

AlexP has not been around in a long time.  I used to pm with him and I do believe that he was well read and knew a lot about his subject.  If I am not incorrect, he was an older man who had lived through some of the results of the Russian Revolution as the child of those who had been displaced by that revolution.

He spoke many languages including Chinese and Russian and English and always had very interesting stories to tell.

I have no doubt that Alexandra did what she thought was best.  She had every good intention, but she was not Empress material.  I get so tired of hearing about her many sterling talents as a mother and wife.  If she were indeed that sterling, she would have known enough to leave her husband to his job and to kick Rasputin out on his butt!  As I have mentioned before, Alexei lived for 18 months after Rasputin was murdered and did very well without him.  In fact some of the pictures from Tobolsk before the sled debacle show him to be strong and tall and healthy enough to help his father saw logs.  Alexandra was wrong about a lot of things and she should have learned her place in the imperial family and kept to it.

I don't hate her, but I don't like her either.  If anything, I feel disgust for her meddling.

Offline Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #516 on: October 01, 2009, 11:04:36 AM »

I am - of course - no mother but I can imagine what one must feel seeing ones child in undescribable pain and danger. Rasputin was Alexandra's "anchor" - whatever might or might not have been his powers. And no argument in the world will convince me of the contrary.

Of course she was no politician - how should she have been? But she had her opinions and acted in the most honest ways. The end would have come even without her. It is ridiculous to blame her entirely
Meine Kaiserin

Alixz

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #517 on: October 01, 2009, 12:07:33 PM »
I, of course, am a mother but even though I know that Alexandra was in constant pain over the health of her only son, I also see her (IMHO) as more worried about saving the dynasty for him.

I think she was torn between being an Empress and the mother of an Emperor.  In the end, she lost both.

I also know that she was "ill" herself (some real and some imagined) and so reacted as an ill person to the overwhelming lifestyle that she chose.

In the end no matter how wonderful she was in her personal life, I believe that subjecting her children to the likes of Rasputin was akin to child endangerment and child abuse.  I believe that showed her selfish side.

The only thing Rasputin did as "her anchor" was to pull her down to his level and in the end to drown her.

I am not saying that she was the sole cause of the Russian Revolution and the end of the dynasty.  That was beginning long before she was even old enough to know what was going on in Russia, let alone in her own country of Hesse.

But no matter what, she was proud and intractable and married to a soft and pliant man.  Bad combination.

Offline Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #518 on: October 01, 2009, 01:12:07 PM »
What makes you think that she was "proud"?
Meine Kaiserin

Offline historyfan

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #519 on: October 01, 2009, 08:08:36 PM »
I am an "Alix fan"...but I know she made mistakes.  It's easy to see with a safe cushion of time and distance.  I think the mistakes she made were catastrophic, but I do believe she indeed thought she was doing the best she could.  She didn't start the revolution by herself, and she couldn't have stopped it by herself either.  She didn't deserve the quantity and type of filth that was slung at her.

Offline Terence

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #520 on: October 02, 2009, 12:12:19 AM »
In the end no matter how wonderful she was in her personal life, I believe that subjecting her children to the likes of Rasputin was akin to child endangerment and child abuse.  I believe that showed her selfish side.

The only thing Rasputin did as "her anchor" was to pull her down to his level and in the end to drown her.

Well we all know it didn't end well, that's certainly an understatement.  But IMO to raise these charges is too much.  She used this man to save the life of her child.  I don't see where it endangered her other children unless you assume Rasputin was the cause of the Revolution, and I find that very tenuous.  There was a lot more involved than Raspy!

T

Offline PAVLOV

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #521 on: October 02, 2009, 05:02:42 AM »
Alex P. What has happened to him.? Has he stopped posting completely ?. Perhaps he has been offended by something or someone. I really enjoyed his postings, which were very informative and interesting.  I miss him.  I think he is a loss to the forum, he always sounded like a very erudite and ciultured person.

Alex P, if you are out there, perhaps you would like to come back ! 

Offline PAVLOV

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #522 on: October 02, 2009, 06:08:05 AM »
This is a can of worms. We are flogging this poor woman like a dead horse.
 
SHE WAS NOT SOLEY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RUSSIAN REVOLUTION. Of course not, just like Marie Antoinette did not start the French Revolution. They just contributed and were scapegoats for public opinion. But it was all self inflicted.

Its just the glaring mistakes she made that scream out at one from the historical records. What would we have done if we were in her position ?
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and although she found herself in an extremely complex situation, made up of all sorts of problems, I think her arrogance and narrow minded perception was her down fall. I also think she had mental and emotional problems, which went way back to her childhood. Adjustment problems. Perhaps that is why she did not adapt or adjust to being Empress. I think she carried some of these problems over to her children, by isolating them from the "cruel" world.

The first thing I think she should have done was to consider the advice offered to her by the family, and others in government. Instead she showed them the door.

The second thing which should have been done, in my humble opinion, was to appoint an emergency " council" composed of a cross section of people from different levels, including Nicholas's uncles, to assist in running the country during the time her husband was playing war at the front. The Duma was constantly being disbanded, that together with her constant " hiring and firing" of people, did not contribute to stability or continuity.
Perhaps there were many other things she could have done if she thought carefully about the singularly difficult situation she found herself in. Thought about them intelligently.

I think that she really believed that God had put her in charge of Russia at that time, to the exclusion of everyone else.

I am going to be shot down in flames for saying this.

How intelligent was she ? Taking everything into consideration. Should she have been left in charge of the largest country in the world ?

Many people here are constantly saying that she was such a wonderful mother and wife. Was she ?

I dont think so. She closetted her children away from everything, subjected them to Rasputin, and bullied her husband into making the most disastrous decisions in history. Her children have been  described as being a bit " backward' in some ways, as they were denied normal social interaction. Any reasonably intelligent parent would not do that would they ?

At what point, does one in a situation like this, say to yourself " something is wrong here, this is not working, i am not coping, maybe I need help" ?     
 
I sometimes wonder if she influenced her husbands decision to engage in the disastrous Japanese war ? Although he also did not listen to good advice.

Considering all the disasters afterwards, I have this theory that she influenced this one as well. It just seems to be an  Empress Alexandra  "special" . Perhaps I am wrong. But I think about this one very often.

I am running for cover!!



And no, she did not only start to interfere, at the start of the war. She started on day one.

Now you can all shoot me down in flames !!!   

Con

Offline Teddy

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #523 on: October 02, 2009, 06:55:39 AM »
*boring*

RomanovsFan4Ever

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Re: Alexandra - Slandered and Hated
« Reply #524 on: October 02, 2009, 07:56:17 AM »
I sometimes wonder if she influenced her husbands decision to engage in the disastrous Japanese war ? Although he also did not listen to good advice.

Now you can all shoot me down in flames !!!  

Don't worry...all members of the forum have the right to say their opinion.  ;)

Concerning to the Russo-Japanese war, personally I don't think that Empress Alexandra was in favour of that war, I think that Nicholas II was pushed on it by bed suggestions of ministers, and by the expansionist tendency of the Imperial Russia...or at least is what I think...correct me if I'm wrong.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2009, 08:03:06 AM by RomanovsFan4Ever »