Author Topic: Did OTMAA ever have a chance?  (Read 16338 times)

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Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Did OTMAA ever have a chance?
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2004, 11:01:52 AM »
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I have to agree with Robert.I believe once the family left Tobolsk and arrived in Ekaterinburg their fate was sealed.It kind of makes me wonder if Lenin had tried to bring the IF to Moscow for a public trial would he have been able to.It seemed like when the Ural Soviets got ahold of the IF they were unwilling to let them go for any reason so they could dwell out the people's justice.
Maybe I'm wrong but this is just my take on it.


Merrique, you got it exactly correct.

Offline rlbumich

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Re: Did OTMAA ever have a chance?
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2004, 11:40:18 AM »
Quote


I have to agree with Robert.I believe once the family left Tobolsk and arrived in Ekaterinburg their fate was sealed.It kind of makes me wonder if Lenin had tried to bring the IF to Moscow for a public trial would he have been able to.It seemed like when the Ural Soviets got ahold of the IF they were unwilling to let them go for any reason so they could dwell out the people's justice.
Maybe I'm wrong but this is just my take on it.


Basically, Lenin let the Ural Soviets "get their hands" dirty in dealing with the IF. Pass the buck!
Let's Do This!

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Re: Did OTMAA ever have a chance?
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2005, 06:43:34 PM »
Please remember that an attempt was actually made to rescue the family from the house in Ekaterinburg. It appears to have been a genuine attempt. The family certainly thought so and made preparations. We now know that the letter to the family was intercepted by the commandant and turned over to the Ural soviet.
They decided to use the letter in a ploy to get the family in a position that they could be 'shot while trying to escape". They read Nicholas' replies to the letters sent and sent falase letters to him.
The family even dressed and sat up all night waiting for the attempt that never came.
If you read the letters of Nicholas in reply to what he thought were "friends" you see how niave and unrealistic the family was on what must be done to rescue them. And it makes your heart sick to see the wasted opportunities.

Offline Romanov_fan

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Re: Did OTMAA ever have a chance?
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2006, 12:44:01 PM »
I think they would have chosen to die together, rather than separate. They were very close, and they all had their ideas alike, that they must stick together. Family as a value meant much to them, and they would, in death, if they had known it would be death, and in life, if they thought they had a better chance of survival separetly have stuck together. Perhaps circumstances would have parted them, though, as they did for a while when Marie and Nicholas and Alexandra were in Ekaterinburg, and the others were in Tobolsk. This was because of circumstances, but I think if they could stick together, they did that.

Kaie Karadjordjevic

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Re: Did OTMAA ever have a chance?
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2006, 12:35:09 PM »
OTMAA may have decided that but however possesive Alexandra might be, no parent wants to see there children die in front of them. I think generally they were all very naive, as well as there country being in a state of political unrest made them seem even more so, which is probably why they had the fate they did. but however naive Nicholas and Alexandra were, they can't have been so naive and with drawn from the world not to realise somewhat, what was going on. but i don't think they knew enough to make the precaution of getting OTMAA or even OTMA out of the country

Offline Romanov_fan

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Re: Did OTMAA ever have a chance?
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2006, 12:41:30 PM »
Well, the sitiuation was constantly changing with regards to their status from bad to worse, but it must have been confusing to know what do when you were living it, I would imagine. Otmaa would I think have always wanted to stay with their parents, etc and I think they would have. I don't think it was so much they weren't informed, as it was that whether or not they were, they most likely would have stuck together, in my opinion.

Kaie Karadjordjevic

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Re: Did OTMAA ever have a chance?
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2006, 12:42:53 PM »
Lenin's plans, from the evidence in GARF that we know of was to return the whole family to Moscow for a huge show trial. Nicholas was to be found guilty and executed publicly for the PR value. There was already much clamor from Europe, including a formal request from Germany that the Empress and children not be harmed.  In order to keep his political capital with Germany, and not to appear "too brutal" to the world public, he was going to send the Empress and children to exile, probably in Germany.


No not Germany, because while the russian revolution was going on, Russia had to surrender form WW1, so Germany took over Russia and created the treaty of Brest-Litovsk  (which was one of the reasons why the treaty of Versailles was so harsh) this treaty was exceedingly harsh and so the Russians hated the Germans and vice-versa so even if the Royal family was sent into exile in Germany the likelyhood is that Germany wouldn't except them

Offline Romanov_fan

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Re: Did OTMAA ever have a chance?
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2006, 01:02:58 PM »
Well, Germany might have offered, but they were never going to do have anything to with it, mainly because of World War I. They honestly believed it would be wrong to seek rescue from the Germans, that is the Imperial Family believed that. I think Kaiser Wilhelm did wish to rescue them, but they would never have taken him up on that. I think Germany might have accepted them, but they would never have accepted Germany, and that fact crushed any such plans for escape.

duke felix

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Re: Did OTMAA ever have a chance?
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2006, 03:18:08 PM »
I think OTMA & the Empress may well have been sent into exile, but I feel sure that Nicholas & Alexis would have been executed, although I can see why the Bolsheviks executed the entire family.

Offline Romanov_fan

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Re: Did OTMAA ever have a chance?
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2006, 08:34:21 AM »
Yes, and they had to cover it up, saying that only Nicholas had been executed I think. Nicholas was really the most wanted one, and one wonders if he could ever have made it into exile. But, if the Bolsheviks knew that Alexei was in fragile health, and might not live nor have heirs, they might have let him go. But, my opinion is, that without an escape plot of their own, they were pretty much doomed, even from the begining, and certainly after the communists came into power.

Ra-Ra-Rasputin

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Re: Did OTMAA ever have a chance?
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2006, 05:42:23 AM »
I think if Nicholas and Alexandra had realised what was going to happen to them, and been told that their daughters/children could be taken to exile safely but they were not allowed to accompany them, they would have let the children go.  Whether the children wanted to go or not, I cannot imagine any parent being selfish enough to keep their children with them and let them go to a certain death. What parent wants their child to be murdered infront of them?

However, I don't really think OTMA had much of a chance once Kerensky was gone.  Nicholas and Alexandra wouldn't have separated from their children unless they had really believed they were going to be killed at some point down the line.  And, once they were in the Urals, their fate was sealed.  Lenin was probably quite relieved that the murder was carried out down there- he didn't have their blood on his hands, and could easily blame the Ural Soviet, taking the blame away from himself. 

Rachel
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Offline Romanov_fan

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Re: Did OTMAA ever have a chance?
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2006, 07:24:47 PM »
 I think it was only annouced that Nicholas had been executed and not the others, because it was known that despite it being the revolution and all, that if otmaa were killed, that didn't look that good. Lenin sort of hesitated with the sitiuation, and the local communists certainly knew what to do. I suppose it is hard to say what Nicholas and Alexandra would have done about their children if push came to shove, but there would have been two sitiuations: one, certain death, known or the more vague threat of death, and their response might have been different depending.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Did OTMAA ever have a chance?
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2006, 01:24:22 AM »
We do know from the family of Kharitonov that their remaining retainers, including himself, Trupp, and Demidova, all believed that the family would not be harmed so long as they remained with them. That is why there was such insistence on remaining with the family by so many of their servants and such distress at separation. To some extent, I think that the grand duchesses also felt that their presence would help keep their parents and brother safe, that perhaps they would not be harmed if they were there.

Surely all were aware of the possibility of the Tsar's execution. Alexandra obviously knew what happened to Marie Antoinette. Alexei had faced death before, so I think he was well aware of its possibility while in captivity.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Did OTMAA ever have a chance?
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2006, 12:30:26 PM »
To me it is quite obvious that the Bolshviks knew that each time they removed a servant from the circle which surrounded the IF this made the IF more and more vulerable.

As for OTMAA ever having a chance to survive,  they had a chance until they were executed.

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Re: Did OTMAA ever have a chance?
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2006, 05:56:01 PM »
Technically, yes they had a chance. But it seems to me that the walls were closing in around them, and that there wasn't much of a chance left. Of course, never say never, but still. The last chance might have been that false plot with the soldier in the early summer of 1918. But, it was a setup, and not real. That they even participated in this, shows they must have been seeking a way out, and might have thought of it as their last chance.