Author Topic: Alexandra and Rasputin  (Read 132996 times)

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Offline Celestia

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Re: Alexandra and Rasputin
« Reply #210 on: January 12, 2009, 08:07:15 PM »
Cool photos. Doubt Empress and Rasputin were lovers, just because your friend is a guy, doesn't mean your sleeping with him!

Plus It Empress! NOT Queen, an Empress is a higher rank of a consort of a ruler.

a monarch is a monarch equal which titel he/she use... like the emporer of japan, queen of danmark, grand duke of luxemburg...they "rule" their country

Hi.
I'd like to point out that monarchs are not equal. Empresses have almost no power outside their own home, except in the social sense. The power of any female monarch has been determined mostly by the male monarch. There are rare exceptions throughout history (Nefertiti, One of the Empresses of China that I know of but can't name right now, and the Queens of England) but for the most part, males have dominated monarchies, be they empresses or queens.
Besides, Alexandria is Tsarina, not empress. I don't think there's much difference, but at least use the correct title.
I do agree that Alexandria would never sleep with Rasputin. She used him simply to heal Alexi. She's way too deeply religious to do that and besides, there would have been something about that in the reports where the guards followed Rasputin. Arguing that she could have made a mistake or something like that is valid, but that doesn't seem possible. Despite the novelty that drew in other nobility, it just doesn't make sense when you're a mother of five.
I do find the song amusing, despite the inaccuracies.
~Celestia


Offline nena

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Re: Alexandra and Rasputin
« Reply #211 on: January 13, 2009, 10:12:58 AM »
Alexandra would never sleep with Rasputin. Simply I can not say more.  But newspapers in Russia at that time said opposite.....

But I read he was once at OTMA's room at AP. But nothing happened, of course. Only rumors were made.....
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 10:23:37 AM by nena »
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Offline tom_romanov

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Re: Alexandra and Rasputin
« Reply #212 on: January 13, 2009, 10:21:48 AM »
I totally agree with you nena. I was shocked when I read the 'claims' that he seduced OTMA- completely wrong but then I guess the whole- nursery+nightgown+OTMA+Rasputin=scandal.

Offline Celestia

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Re: Alexandra and Rasputin
« Reply #213 on: January 25, 2009, 11:49:58 AM »
Basically, it was all a manipulation of facts to add fire to the revolution. At least that's what I believe.

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Alexandra and Rasputin
« Reply #214 on: May 07, 2009, 07:24:25 PM »
They didn't have an affair. But Rasputin went to the bedroom of the grand duchesses
when they were in bed clothes, and they allowed that situation.
And for that reason existed an obscene pamphlet, wich showed Rasputin having sex with the
Tsarina and her four daughters

Offline tom_romanov

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Re: Alexandra and Rasputin
« Reply #215 on: May 08, 2009, 10:49:14 AM »
I don't see what their aim would have been by poducing such leaflets and posters. Also by showing Rasputin and Alexandra and OTMA, that is obscene and disgusting, depending on the year the girls would have only been teens!

Offline Tina Laroche

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Re: Alexandra and Rasputin
« Reply #216 on: May 08, 2009, 04:12:17 PM »
Besides, Alexandria is Tsarina, not empress. I don't think there's much difference, but at least use the correct title.

I think that they may be arguing on this point, but since it's "Императрица Александра Фёдоровна" in Russian, which is translated "Empress Alexandra Feodorovna", I've always used Empress in English too. But I quite think Tsarina is almost the same - and can be used too. I mean, I've seen Nicholas refferred to as Tsar Nicholas II and Emperor Nicholas II.

~~~~~~~~~

On theme - I think there is NO way Rasputin had an... affair with Alix or any of the Grand Duchesses.

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Alexandra and Rasputin
« Reply #217 on: May 08, 2009, 06:35:43 PM »
Besides, Alexandria is Tsarina, not empress. I don't think there's much difference, but at least use the correct title.

I think that they may be arguing on this point, but since it's "Императрица Александра Фёдоровна" in Russian, which is translated "Empress Alexandra Feodorovna", I've always used Empress in English too. But I quite think Tsarina is almost the same - and can be used too. I mean, I've seen Nicholas refferred to as Tsar Nicholas II and Emperor Nicholas II.

~~~~~~~~~

On theme - I think there is NO way Rasputin had an... affair with Alix or any of the Grand Duchesses.

Absolutely NOT the same, actually. Nicholas was, absolutely speaking, Emperor, and Alexandra was Empress.  Tsar/Tsarina were formal, former terms, often used, but not proper  To be correct, the form of address was Empress Alexandra Feodorovna.

I quote from the "Statesman's Guide to Russia" published by the Imperial Court Minister in 1896, re: proper address of the Sovereign:
The title of the Russian Monarch is Emperor and Imperial Majesty.  Originally the Russian Sovereigns bore the title of grand dukes. With the uniting of Russia under the dominion of Moscow, the title of Tsar began to be used, and was, definitely adopted by Ivan IV in 1547. This remained the title of the Russian Sovereigns until 1721. In 1721, by the peace of Nishtadt, the Great Northern war, carried on so successfully by Peter the Great, was concluded. In celebration of this event, the Senat and Synod resolved t beg Peter I to accept the titles of Emperor, Great, and Father of his Country. A supreme Ukas was issued to that effect, on November 11, 1721, which gave rise to a protest on the part of many European states, as it placed the Russian Sovereign on the same level with the Emperor of Germany, the sole Monarch of that rank then existing. First to acknowledge the new title were Prussia, the Netherlands and Sweden, last - Poland in 1764. 
http://alexanderpalace.org/palace/Statesman.html

Offline Tina Laroche

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Re: Alexandra and Rasputin
« Reply #218 on: May 08, 2009, 06:48:27 PM »
Thanks for clearing it out, FA. So Emperor/Empress it is after all. : )

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Alexandra and Rasputin
« Reply #219 on: May 08, 2009, 10:49:28 PM »
Who could have even tought that Rasputin had sex with the girls? If there were innocent young women among all the Russian aristocracy, these were the four Grand Duchess...I think that their knowledge about sex was close to zero.

Of course, when rumors started, people believed them. Sadly, peoples from the world are open to believe any scandal concerning their governement. Many people actually likes gossip and to speak about scandals.

As for the Empress...there actually were Queens and Empress who had lovers and these lovers were not always men from nobility. But in Alexandra's case I do not believe she was Rasputin lover. There's nothing supporting it, and she was deeply in love with her own husband. No need to take a lover. Besides, Alexandra had a high sense of her duties and should NEVER take a lover. Much less Rasputin, a man who, she believed was working for God.

RealAnastasia.

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Re: Alexandra and Rasputin
« Reply #220 on: May 09, 2009, 04:40:02 AM »
Exactly RealAnastasia!

I found this horrible propaganda picture, is shocking to see the vulgarity and rudeness of the revolutionary propaganda.



Offline Tina Laroche

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Re: Alexandra and Rasputin
« Reply #221 on: May 09, 2009, 04:54:23 AM »
That's not the most horrible one I've seen - there was one, a much worse one - posted before on another thread. :o I'm still shocked of all these caricatures.

Offline nena

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Re: Alexandra and Rasputin
« Reply #222 on: May 09, 2009, 05:51:57 AM »
Well, Alexandra really believed he was man sent from God, but he indeed 'was', up to 1914. And, he was khlyst also. IMO all of it was well done acting by him.
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Re: Alexandra and Rasputin
« Reply #223 on: May 09, 2009, 10:19:08 AM »
Well, Alexandra really believed he was man sent from God, but he indeed 'was', up to 1914. And, he was khlyst also. IMO all of it was well done acting by him.

Nena,

Alexander Spiridovitch, Head of the Secret Personal Security to the Imperial Famiily had ordered and read the exhaustive dossiers created by the Okhrana over the years about Rasputin.  He spent his years in exile further researching, interviewing people who knew Rasputin and wrote the first complete biography of Rasputin in 1932.  He comes down very firmly to say that despite his obvious flaws, Rasputin was without question NOT Khlysty.  Those who said Rasputin "was Khlysty" were themselves engaged in their own propaganda campaign.


Offline amartin71718

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Re: Alexandra and Rasputin
« Reply #224 on: May 09, 2009, 10:36:31 AM »
What does it say up in the top right-hand corner? I can't read Russian.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2009, 11:53:06 AM by Alixz »
I'm back on my bull****.