Nicholas II and Anti-Semitism.

[Georgiy]

I don't know about that. When Islam first appeared, the Christians of the time thought of it as another (Christian) heresy - the latest in a long line of heresies. Some aspects of Islam seem similar to Orthodox Christianity.

[Louis_Charles]

Although I have not a shred of evidence I hypothesize that ultimately the Pope must be responsible for the Russian Revolution as it removed his single largest competitor…..the Russian Tsar. Of all in Europe who would have benefited from the Tsarist fall, The pope had the most to gain and was the single most powerful, ideological arch nemesis the Tsar had.  Plus the timing, if it hadn't happened when it did, even as late as 1950 would have made the Tsar effectivly impervious to vatican power and influence.
This will probably make me violently unpopular but I believe if Jews were responsible for the revolution the Pope was the Puppet
Master.

Have you considered the Martians as possible suspects? There's no evidence for that, either, but that apparently doesn't stop speculation.

All the best,

A Mildly Offended Catholic, know to God as "Louis_Charles"

[Guinastasia]

Although I have not a shred of evidence I hypothesize that ultimately the Pope must be responsible for the Russian Revolution as it removed his single largest competitor…..the Russian Tsar. Of all in Europe who would have benefited from the Tsarist fall, The pope had the most to gain and was the single most powerful, ideological arch nemesis the Tsar had.  Plus the timing, if it hadn't happened when it did, even as late as 1950 would have made the Tsar effectivly impervious to vatican power and influence.
This will probably make me violently unpopular but I believe if Jews were responsible for the revolution the Pope was the Puppet
Master.

Have you considered the Martians as possible suspects? There's no evidence for that, either, but that apparently doesn't stop speculation.

All the best,

A Mildly Offended Catholic, know to God as "Louis_Charles"

No no, it was the Illuminati! 

FNORD!

 

Seriously, one wonders if someone has been reading Jack Chick...

[grandduchessella]

Oh Jack Chick--horrible bigot.  He who claims, amongst other things, that the Holocaust was part of a plot by the RCC and that the Nazi party was run by the Vatican.

[Guinastasia]

Yeah, pretty much.  But I think anymore, his tracts are so out there that they're almost funny-I've had friends who love to sit and disect and just make fun of them. 

Also, notice how all of his villains always laugh like this:  HAW HAW HAW

[james_h]

Although I have not a shred of evidence I hypothesize that ultimately the Pope must be responsible for the Russian Revolution as it removed his single largest competitor…..the Russian Tsar. Of all in Europe who would have benefited from the Tsarist fall, The pope had the most to gain and was the single most powerful, ideological arch nemesis the Tsar had.  Plus the timing, if it hadn't happened when it did, even as late as 1950 would have made the Tsar effectivly impervious to vatican power and influence.
This will probably make me violently unpopular but I believe if Jews were responsible for the revolution the Pope was the Puppet
Master.

Have you considered the Martians as possible suspects? There's no evidence for that, either, but that apparently doesn't stop speculation.

All the best,

A Mildly Offended Catholic, know to God as "Louis_Charles"

Louis_Charles,

Sorry to have mildly offended you.

Martians? Perhaps, is their motto "GENS ET REGNUM QUOD NON SERVIERIT MIHI PERIBIT" because if it is you may have a point.





To be frank, achieving majority of opinion rarely ever validates an opinion.

For example 99% of the world probably view America as a democracy, some it appears do not.
"We’re not a democracy. It’s a terrible misunderstanding and a slander to the idea of democracy to call us that. In reality, we’re a plutocracy: a government by the wealthy.” : Ramsey Clark, former U.S. Attorney General

I don't mind being the Ramsey Clark for my hypothesis; you can be the 99%..

All the best,

A mildly non-repentant former Catholic, not know to god as much at all.

J

[grandduchessella]

I would remind posters that there is a long-standing policy on the Forum of showing at least the minimum amount of respect to other people's religions. Making points, even controversial ones is fine, but try to stay within the bounds of basic consideration.

[grandduchessella]

"We’re not a democracy. It’s a terrible misunderstanding and a slander to the idea of democracy to call us that. In reality, we’re a plutocracy: a government by the wealthy.” : Ramsey Clark, former U.S. Attorney General

Rathering embarassing for a former Attorney General (now making his living defending Saddam Hussein and Elizaphan Ntakirutimana, a leader in the Rwandan genocide as well as Milosevic (as well as attending his funeral as a friend) and Radovan Karadzic. He has declared: "History will prove Milošević was right. Charges are just that, charges." He also described Milosevic and Hussein as being "courageous") but the US is NOT a democracy, it is, in fact, a republic. It's even in our Pledge of Allegiance. Accurately defined, a democracy is a form of government in which the people decide policy matters directly while a republic  is a system in which the people choose representatives who, in turn, make policy decisions on their behalf. One may argue whether we live up to various lofty goals but not the basic facts.

Also, in a thread about treatment of Jews, choosing Clark, who also defended Nazi concentration camp commandant Karl Linnas as well as Jack Reimer, charged as a war criminal in the killings of Jews in Warsaw, is rather ironic.

[Louis_Charles]

Dear James,

I think it was Bev who made the most interesting point on another thread in one of those endless "Who was really responsible for the downfall of the Tsar?" threads.  Is there some reason to discount the Russian people as the ones responsible? It was THEIR revolution, coming at the end of nearly one hundred years of civil unrest. Or was Kerensky secretly taking his orders from Benedict XV, a man with such limited authority that he couldn't even make Catholic rulers (ex. Franz Josef, Karl I) do what he wanted?

As Grandduchess Ella accurately points out, the United States is a Republic, not a democracy. Is it controlled by plutocrats? I'm not sure. Ramsey Clark certainly did quite well under the system, however, so perhaps he is in a better position to know.

And Selina, rest assured that my attitude as expressed on this thread is not a kneejerk defence of Christianity, especially in regard to the persecutions unleashed in its name over the past two thousand years. Anti-Semitism is an enormous reproach to the Churches --- Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox. My point in my original post was an attempt to return the thread to topic.

Was Nicholas II anti-Jewish? Certainly in the abstract, as in he surely felt that they were aliens to Russian society and outside the community as non-Orthodox. He did not like meeting Jews (there are letters to his mother describing his distaste at the access wealthy Jews had to the English royal court), but I have never read where his personal distaste translated into poor conduct. My assessment is that he shared in the general anti-Semitism that was endemic to the upper classes of Western cultures at the end of the nineteenth century.


Simon

[Eddie_uk]

i realsie i willi offend christians all over right now. to be frank, i find the practise of your religion pretty hypocritical and this kind of example proves it. martin luther was very happy to socialise with jews until they refused to convert which was what he was angling for. cromwell only officially let back jews into britain becuase they were a good source of labour and improving the economy, like they did with other countries. when someone founds the banks on which a country stands for, you don't repay them by blaming them for a death and labelleling them with blood libel and eventually expelling them, but thats what britain did. i'm sure many other countries did the same, yet still practise the word of jesus 'love thy neighbour like thyself.' where were the good catholics in the 3rd reich? off ordering the deaths of millions of others, if not supporting it. i'd like to see a single nazi who repented for what they did and went to confession in the very least. sorry for getting off topic, but its bugging me just how christians have breached the laws of their own religon in order to persecute others and call it a reason, like what the russian monarchy had been doing for so long
selina                               xxxxxxxxxxx

Oh don't worry about offending people dear. Freedom of speech I say, that's why I was always harping on about freeing Palasteine, so much injustice. But anyway back to the topic

[Ortino]

Can we please leave the whole Israel/Palestine conflict out of this? It will simply create explosive debates and has no bearing on the time surrounding this discussion.

[james_h]

"We’re not a democracy. It’s a terrible misunderstanding and a slander to the idea of democracy to call us that. In reality, we’re a plutocracy: a government by the wealthy.” : Ramsey Clark, former U.S. Attorney General

Rathering embarassing for a former Attorney General (now making his living defending Saddam Hussein and Elizaphan Ntakirutimana, a leader in the Rwandan genocide as well as Milosevic (as well as attending his funeral as a friend) and Radovan Karadzic. He has declared: "History will prove Milošević was right. Charges are just that, charges." He also described Milosevic and Hussein as being "courageous") but the US is NOT a democracy, it is, in fact, a republic. It's even in our Pledge of Allegiance. Accurately defined, a democracy is a form of government in which the people decide policy matters directly while a republic  is a system in which the people choose representatives who, in turn, make policy decisions on their behalf. One may argue whether we live up to various lofty goals but not the basic facts.
Also, in a thread about treatment of Jews, choosing Clark, who also defended Nazi concentration camp commandant Karl Linnas as well as Jack Reimer, charged as a war criminal in the killings of Jews in Warsaw, is rather ironic.

Hmmm, ironic, yes it is. Saddam Hussein, Elizaphan Ntakirutimana, Milosevic. You are right about that. It would be much better if attorneys chose clients they believed were innocent or easy to defend. Also, because 1 + 1 = 2 naturally he must have shared his clients views, all of them, in there entirety.

 "He also described Milosevic and Hussein as being "courageous"“You would perhaps rather the man representing you to slander you in public?

"One may argue whether we live up to various lofty goals but not the basic facts. "    Lofty goals nothing, the issue would be whether the institution of a republic or a democracy is a theoretical impossibility. Not related to Nicholas attitude towards the Jews


In truth grandduchessella I merely shared a thought. It wasn't idle; hundreds of hours went into it. Though nothing admissible as judicial evidence.  Agree to differ, fine but....

"Oh Jack Chick--horrible bigot.  Angry He who claims, amongst other things, that the Holocaust was part of a plot by the RCC and that the Nazi party was run by the Vatican." - grandduchessella

"No no, it was the Illuminati!  FNORD!"  - Guinastasia

"Have you considered the Martians as possible suspects? There's no evidence for that, either, but that apparently doesn't stop speculation." - Louis_Charles


I'd never heard of Jack Chick. All these replies are disrespectful, childish and lower the tone of this entire forum, If I wanted replies like these I would have postulated my hypothesis to a group of teenagers. But fine, malign an idea with churlish wit.
Then you could post a lofty well written reply to a post I made, more through being offended at what had been written in response to my post. Remain on your plinth grandduchessella, this is tedious.

[ferngully]

Can we please leave the whole Israel/Palestine conflict out of this? It will simply create explosive debates and has no bearing on the time surrounding this discussion.

what wit eddieboy. if you want to get political on PM, feel free, i will tell you about injustice. but you're right ortino, everytime someone tells me about the jewish conspiracy, they always bring the middle east up just to back up their pathetic conversation. sorry for offending any person around here
selina                  xxxxxxxxxxxx

[LisaDavidson]

"We’re not a democracy. It’s a terrible misunderstanding and a slander to the idea of democracy to call us that. In reality, we’re a plutocracy: a government by the wealthy.” : Ramsey Clark, former U.S. Attorney General

Rathering embarassing for a former Attorney General (now making his living defending Saddam Hussein and Elizaphan Ntakirutimana, a leader in the Rwandan genocide as well as Milosevic (as well as attending his funeral as a friend) and Radovan Karadzic. He has declared: "History will prove Milošević was right. Charges are just that, charges." He also described Milosevic and Hussein as being "courageous") but the US is NOT a democracy, it is, in fact, a republic. It's even in our Pledge of Allegiance. Accurately defined, a democracy is a form of government in which the people decide policy matters directly while a republic  is a system in which the people choose representatives who, in turn, make policy decisions on their behalf. One may argue whether we live up to various lofty goals but not the basic facts.
Also, in a thread about treatment of Jews, choosing Clark, who also defended Nazi concentration camp commandant Karl Linnas as well as Jack Reimer, charged as a war criminal in the killings of Jews in Warsaw, is rather ironic.

Hmmm, ironic, yes it is. Saddam Hussein, Elizaphan Ntakirutimana, Milosevic. You are right about that. It would be much better if attorneys chose clients they believed were innocent or easy to defend. Also, because 1 + 1 = 2 naturally he must have shared his clients views, all of them, in there entirety.

 "He also described Milosevic and Hussein as being "courageous"“You would perhaps rather the man representing you to slander you in public?

"One may argue whether we live up to various lofty goals but not the basic facts. "    Lofty goals nothing, the issue would be whether the institution of a republic or a democracy is a theoretical impossibility. Not related to Nicholas attitude towards the Jews


In truth grandduchessella I merely shared a thought. It wasn't idle; hundreds of hours went into it. Though nothing admissible as judicial evidence.  Agree to differ, fine but....

"Oh Jack Chick--horrible bigot.  Angry He who claims, amongst other things, that the Holocaust was part of a plot by the RCC and that the Nazi party was run by the Vatican." - grandduchessella

"No no, it was the Illuminati!  FNORD!"  - Guinastasia

"Have you considered the Martians as possible suspects? There's no evidence for that, either, but that apparently doesn't stop speculation." - Louis_Charles


I'd never heard of Jack Chick. All these replies are disrespectful, childish and lower the tone of this entire forum, If I wanted replies like these I would have postulated my hypothesis to a group of teenagers. But fine, malign an idea with churlish wit.
Then you could post a lofty well written reply to a post I made, more through being offended at what had been written in response to my post. Remain on your plinth grandduchessella, this is tedious.

As moderator of this topic, I am giving you, James H, one warning to stop with the personal attacks. It is indeed unfortunate that you are unhappy with the replies you have received. Grand Duchess Ella is our Global Administrator and she and the other members here must be treated with respect and not derision.

[Eddie_uk]

Can we please leave the whole Israel/Palestine conflict out of this? It will simply create explosive debates and has no bearing on the time surrounding this discussion.

lol, how convenient!!! No, please back to the topic...