Maria without jewels in Ipatiev house

[Erichek]

Can it be that Maria was without jewels in the Ipatiev house simply because they were sewn up the clothes back in Tobolsk,  where she was not present when the jewels were hidden?

[Annie]

Then there is the story she wasn't allowed because her mom and sisters were upset with her for carrying on with a guard

[ashanti01]

Then there is the story she wasn't allowed because her mom and sisters were upset with her for carrying on with a guard

I have read that too, however I'm not sure how true that is and if it true I wish there were more details made avaliable.

Considering the situation they were in, if Marie was "carrying on" w/ a guard then one can see how upset Alix might have been

[LisaDavidson]

Sorry, but this seems illogical when it comes to explaining the jewels or lack of them. Alix may very well have been upset with Marie (or not). But would she have been in a position to take something away from her daughter and not arouse the suspicions of the guards? The fact that Marie was separated from her three sisters is the most logical reason for her lack of jewels. To search for something else is stretching it.

[ChristineM]

Dear Penny

Thank you for clearing that up.  And isn't it so typical of stresses between mothers and daughters, not to mention imperial mothers and their daughters!  

tsaria

[Annie]

And if the Russian scientists are correct that it is Marie that is missing, and there is doubt as to what became of Ivan, therein lies a story much more intriguing and exciting than AA

[Merrique]

No doubt!  But try as I might, I just can't see Drs Maples and Levine being wrong about this one...  :-/

I agree,I can't see them being wrong about it either.From all the evidence they have presented plus after reading FOTR I definately believe Anastasia's body was not in that grave.
Just knowing that Anastasia's body is still missing and Marie was buried with the rest of the family under her sister's name is just very sad to me.

[James_Davidov]

I dont think, rationally, that Alexandra would have taken jewels from Maria as punishment for her affiliation with the young guard.  Remember, the jewels were being hidden, not being worn, confiscating concealed jewels as punishment would have been pointless.  As for the relationship in question between Maria and the guard, raised in 'The Fate of the Romanovs',  whether it was sexual or innocent is never ever clarified, at its foundation, the guard appeared to be a friend to Marie.  From memory I think he brought her a cup-cake on her birthday, which led to them being alone.  Whatever the circumstances, I like the thought that Maria, who its well documented was flirtatious, had this friend, whether it was innocent or sexual.  As for her family's response, you cannot be surpirsed, other then the clear social issues regarding status, the fact that they were prisoners under the guard of these men explains their reactions.

[Greg_King]

A possibility I need much, much, much more evidence to consider, much less believe.

Well, it's all speculation, isn't it-it's speculation that N/A wouldn't record it, and it's speculation that they would.  No one knows if they would have done so or would not have done so.  I think as Penny points out there are reasonable explanations they would not have done so, just as there are reasonable explanations that they would have done so.  The point is, saying the absence of evidence proves the point one way or another does not work in this case.

Greg King

[Maria_Pavlovna]

Just knowing that Anastasia's body is still missing and Marie was buried with the rest of the family under her sister's name is just very sad to me.

Thats sad ,...but many people believe that Marie or Tatiana or Anastasia is missing.

I have read "The Fate of The Romanovs" by two of our members here - Penny Wilson and Greg King. {{I injoyed the book, but it's sad and not a good thing to read before bedtime}} . they (or i'm misaking) believe that Anastasia is missing. Thats alright because we all have our own opinions.  ( I believe it Marie or Anastasia).


BUT! to get back on topic.  Did Marie and Ivan had a little romance? and did he join the shooting in the cellar?

My opinion on Alix upest at Marie for just  acting her age and being a young adult is nonsense.  

[Janet_W.]

I think Penny has offered some very likely possibilities. Parents dealing with adolescents—and, for that matter, adolescents dealing with their parents—is far more challenging than parenting cute little tykes. And burgeoning sexuality is one of the biggest issues, whatever the century. Then add on the issue of captivity, of separation from your previous life, of all the things that Nicholas and Alexandra had lost . . . and of trying to maintain one’s dignity in front of your captors, when at least two of your daughters want to be friends with those captors.

Young people, however, are generally much more resilient than their elders. And Marie had a loving, open personality. That a young man would have troubled himself to smuggle in a birthday cake would please just about any young woman . . . it certainly would have pleased me, and I wasn’t nearly as naïve as Marie!

We’ll probably never know, but I wouldn’t be one bit surprised to go back in a time machine and find Marie and the young man having their own clandestine, innocent celebration. Stolen minutes from his duty and her imprisonment must have been exciting . . . we all know that sharing a secret/conspiracy with another person is a great deal of fun. I am glad Marie had that special time with the young man, but I am afraid that he very possibly paid for it with his life.

[BobAtchison]

Considering the close quarters they were in it is amazing to me that they all got along as well as they did.  In the end they were still a very tight group.  I have often tried to read into the last diraies and letters that there was tension between members of the family - but as far as I can see it's not there.  Although we would like to judge them as being 'just like us' their lives were very different and even unique.  They were much closer, isolated and self-contained than we can fully appreciate.  Unless more documents are discovered the 'silence' of the Grand Duchesses means we don't know much about their feelings.  If we just accept the extant letters and accounts we have at face value they were religious, disciplined, friendly yet reserved.  I am not one who accepts the speculation that any of the daughters had affairs in exile.  It just doesn't make sense to me.  I am looking forward to being 'converted' if someone can supply some solid documentation.

[Mgmstl]

These were very carefully brought up young ladies who were constantly under the eagle eye of A.F., they had very few close friendships or relationships outside of the palace, and these were all young women who had lives to be lived, and probably did yearn for some type of romance, besides being royalty they are human, and in so many cases throughout history has the royal foot slipped.

Greg & Penny's book is excellent. It breaks through many myths that have been around for years, and brings these people into a much more human light that they need to be to have their lives examined.

I am sure that clandestine full blown affairs weren't carried on, but flirtations & stolen kisses, etc., and perhaps a connection between two people.  I think it is
miraculous indeed that something more intimate did not happen with them being in close quarters with some of the guards who may or may not have been attractive men.  

I think Greg and Penny suggested is not only possible, but probable.  

[AGRBear]

Wooooooohoa, just a minute here.

The experts dealing with the skeletal remains can not tell what occured inside the Impatiev House, if what Yurovsky and others tell us is true.  They said that before they placed the bodies in the mass grave in Pig's Meadow, they took took their rifle butts and smashed the faces of nine so no one would reconize them.

We do not know the condition of the faces before they were smashed.

If we do not know the condition, then no one can give us an accurate description of how they died.  

Probably the only thing we can know, if we continue to believe Yurovsky and the others, that there were no guns fired at the reamains.  So, the bullet holes may be all there is which we can use as possible reasons for death.

As for Maria being the one missing.  I think that is possible.

If she had been wearing her corset when she left then the CHEKA couldn't have delivered it to Moscow because they didn't have it.

AGRBear

[Mgmstl]

Would anyone record in their diaries certain very personal events that could be misconstrued?  It is more likely that this is something that happened, and it may have shaken Alexandra enough to scold Marie or take away the "medicines" from her for the reason of fear of discovery of the jewels.

Also, I am sure that they had no idea if their diaries were being read or would be confiscated and read so they probably kept their comments very much in with the weather, health, etc.

The possible sexual assault or involvement of their daughters in a soldier/sailor romance MUST HAVE BEEN an issue that worried both parents.  What happened on the steamer as described in "FOTR" is a case in point.

When you think of all of the things that could have happened such as rape, torture, etc., they were quite lucky in that respect.  

If Alexandra & Olga had ostracizied Marie days before the execution then it is probably the reasons for the assumptions made by Yurovsky.