Maria without jewels in Ipatiev house

[moonlight_tsarina]

And if the Russian scientists are correct that it is Marie that is missing, and there is doubt as to what became of Ivan, therein lies a story much more intriguing and exciting than AA

You know, this does make some good sense....hm..more to ponder about and endlessly wonder!!  
lol, ALas, but a good thing to wonder about a survivor being more realistic!

[ferngully]

marie was with her parents while tatiana instructed the others to sew jewels in their corsets through alix's message, as the assasins found 6 corsets, they assumed all of the women were accounted for when they actually wore double corsets so there was a GD's pair of corsets missing, so marie might have not been wearing them, unless the others brought some to her when they joined them
selina              xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[pers]

If I remember correctly, it was said in another thread that Tegleva testified that the jewels were sewn into "kostyumi" which is a different word from the word used for corset which is "korsyet".  It is also true, as pointed out above, that the remains of six corsets were found by Sokolov at the mineshaft, thus accounting for all six females.  Interesting to look at the photograph of the front busks of the corsets found, which clearly shows the difference in length of the front busks.

Also as anyone who have worn a proper corset can testify, there isn't place to stuff a tiny baby mouse in between a corset and your body as it is custom made.  They would have been blue and bruised, not to even mention the pain and discomfort.  If the corsets were involved in hiding jewles at all, it would have been sown onto the outside of the corsets and then covered in wadding and material sewn over that onto the corset itself to disguise it.

[Forum Admin]

pers
This has been discussed numerous times. The jewels were NOT sewn into corsets.  They were sewn into little packets between two "chemises" or thin undershirts worn UNDER the corsets but over the body.  The logic of this, of course, is that if anyone ever tried to "pat them down" they would never feel the jewels under the corset, they would only feel the corset ribs.

[moonlight_tsarina]

marie was with her parents while tatiana instructed the others to sew jewels in their corsets through alix's message, as the assasins found 6 corsets, they assumed all of the women were accounted for when they actually wore double corsets so there was a GD's pair of corsets missing, so marie might have not been wearing them, unless the others brought some to her when they joined them
selina              xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I made a "corset diagram" about the women's corsets, it is on the Final Chapter thread. Have you seen it ferngully?
It's a little confusing though.  

[pers]

Dear Forum Admin,
That is exactly what I am saying:  If you were to wear a chemise under a corset (the equivalent today is a corset liner), the corset goes over it.  So there is no place for jewels between the corset and the body, even if you sow them between two layers of chemises.

So the jewels had to be on the outside of the corset itself which is custom made to the body of the person who is wearing it.  You are probably right in that they wore some garment that had additional boning OVER the corset, in which they concealed the jewels.

What is the link to the corset page mentioned above?

[pers]

I actually found her posting under "The Medicines".

[Elisabeth]

Maria Gustavovna Tutel'berg testified to White investigators that the "diamonds and pearls, rubies, sapphires and emeralds were sewn into the brassieres [lifchiki] of Tatiana Nikolaevna and Anastasia Nikolaevna." Additional jewels were sewn into the girls' summer suits and other items of clothing. Olga Nikolaevna also wore a specially altered brassiere, according to other witnesses.

"Chemises" and "corsets" seem to have been the polite euphemisms of both Reds and Whites for what were actually brassieres ("lifchiki"). The imperial women and their ladies took two brassieres and sewed the jewels in between, thus converting two brassieres into one. And since these brassieres were worn between the corsets and the body, they would not have been detected, as the FA explained, if the girls had at any point been patted down.  

[Robert_Hall]

I am not trying to be rude, but would that not have made them a bit "busty"? I mean, obvious ? Perhaps I do not understand the construction of a brassier in those days ?  I had come to terms with the added bulk around the waist and/or middle, but I would think  someone would have noticed a change in bust.

[Elisabeth]

Ah, but Robert, you're forgetting the styles of the late 1910s, the baggy blouses and tight skirts. We're not yet into the 1920s, when women bound their breasts to appear flat-chested.  Reexamine the photos of the IF in Tobolsk and you'll see the girls are all wearing loose blouses and even baggier sweaters, along with narrow skirts.

[pers]

Elizabeth, I think you are right that the jewels were also sown into brassieres, because when they tried to bayonet the girls, the bayonets would not go through the clothing in the breast area.  Corsets used to go up to right below the breast.  Actually now that I think of it, since when do brassieres exist in the form we know them?

[Elisabeth]

Elizabeth, I think you are right that the jewels were also sown into brassieres, because when they tried to bayonet the girls, the bayonets would not go through the clothing in the breast area.  Corsets used to go up to right below the breast.  Actually now that I think of it, since when do brassieres exist in the form we know them?

As far as I know brassieres were around by the late nineteenth century. I have checked and re-checked the term "lifchik" in all of my Russian to English dictionaries and it is always translated as "brassiere" (although the more common, modern  term in Russian is "bustengalter" - from the German, literally a "halter for the bust," too funny!).

But on a much more serious note, I think this does explain why the bullets and bayonets of Yurovsky and his men would not penetrate the bodies of the grand duchesses - remember the Bolsheviks initially aimed for the heart of the victim, "to minimize the blood" and to make death "quicker." In the end, they had to shoot the girls in the head. Yurovsky, in the typical fashion of a murderer, went so far as to blame the victims themselves (their "greed" for jewels) for their prolonged death agony.  

[Abby]

I thought corsets go up over the chest area normally? (Or once again, am I misusing the term 'corset'?) I just thought it was all one peice, and the gems were sewn in throughout.

[Forum Admin]

Chemise is NOT a ''polite" term for brassiere or anything else.  The term in french of the time refers specifically to a thin cotton undershirt meant to be worn under a corset, to prevent chafing and rubbing on the skin.  The maid's testimony specifically mentions taking two of these thin undershirts and quilting jewels in between the two.  There is obviously room under the corset so long as the corset is not tightened up as much as usual.

This is where the jewels were hidden. Not in brassieres or in the corsets themselves.

[AGRBear]

I agree with Pers, wouldn't the jewels pressed and poked into the skin through a cotton whats-ma-called-it under a corset no matter how loose?

And, why couldn't the jewels be also in bras?

Anyone have any souces for any of these places jewels were said to have been sewn???

I made a "corset diagram" about the women's corsets, it is on the Final Chapter thread. Have you seen it ferngully?
It's a little confusing though.  

I don't think I have.  Which thread in  Final Chapter, moonlight-tsarina?

If this has been discussed on other threads, please, direct us to those posts, if you'd be so kind.

AGRBear