Author Topic: Tatiana & Cleopatra  (Read 45020 times)

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Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Tatiana & Cleopatra
« Reply #75 on: October 02, 2005, 09:48:40 PM »
Exactly, for as far as I know, Cleopatra had not an "official portrait". The portraits that the tradition said, belonged to Cleopatra are not confirmed as being hers. They are "supposed" to be, and they are questioned as being Cleopatra. We doesn't know how she really was...I read book saying tha she was black-haired, black-eyed and with olive skin, and others saying she had reddish hair, rosy skin and blue eyes...Mmmmmhhh. I think we'll never know how she really was.  ::)

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Offline Robby

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Re: Tatiana & Cleopatra
« Reply #76 on: October 03, 2005, 12:01:15 AM »
Cleopatra was Greek, so she had a white skin, red to blond hair, and a big Ptoleaumic (?) nose. She was very intelligent instead of her beauty. Some years ago they found a statuehead of Cleopatra in Germany. Wich displayed a but how she looked like. I will show you some heads:

This one, is quite accurate.

The most accurate!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Robby »
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Offline reashka

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Re: Tatiana & Cleopatra
« Reply #77 on: October 03, 2005, 12:21:32 AM »
Thanks Rob for those pics ;D
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Offline Robby

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Re: Tatiana & Cleopatra
« Reply #78 on: October 06, 2005, 10:27:51 AM »
Hihi, thanks Reashka.
“Courage! I have shown it for years; think you I shall lose it at the moment when my sufferings are to end?” Marie Antoinette

Offline stacey

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Re: Tatiana & Cleopatra
« Reply #79 on: October 23, 2005, 01:20:38 PM »
Engrossing discussion--er--debate--er fight--  ;D Amazing but neat that after so many years people still get passionate about these poor souls long dead--happily history is alive and well!! A few thoughts: IMHO all four girls (OTMA) were lovely, esp. Tatiana and Marie; most early photos do NOT "reflect" well on their victims--sorry, I mean subjects; I doubt whether any of the girls would have deliberately set out sexually to seduce a guard in order to escape but I kind of wish they had, maybe they would have survived, and you gotta do what you gotta do in a world like that; and I am interested in hearing other people's thoughts on 2 subjects touched on here: First, the allegation that Olga was (sexually?) assaulted on the way to Ekaterinburg (perhaps her sisters too??)-they were heard crying and screaming apparently, and Second, the intriguing story that Marie had SOME kind of "forbidden" contact with a young guard in, I think, the Ipatiev House (could be wrong about location), which made her mother so angry that Alexandra would barely speak to her. VERY intriguing, at least to me--what is YOUR take on these stories???  :-/
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rskkiya

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Re: Tatiana & Cleopatra
« Reply #80 on: October 23, 2005, 03:01:30 PM »
I do understand that Cleopatera's people were GREEK but they had been in Egypt for quite some time - so anyone with pale white skin would certainly be at a disatvantage ...

PS All my helenic friends, male and female, are all very olive complected...for which they are greatly envied by many.

rs
PPS: Is anyone here watching the HBO series ROME? Rather an interesting Cleo in that one!

;)

Offline stacey

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Re: Tatiana & Cleopatra
« Reply #81 on: October 23, 2005, 05:13:30 PM »
I do want to make it clear--I singled out Tatiana and Marie in particular, but Olga and Anastasia were also beautiful girls--and I agree, if they had not been so tragically murdered, I'm sure all 4 of them would have become really stunning beauties--they were certainly well on their way already!! And about Cleopatra--I agree we may never know her actual coloring, but as someone of mostly Greek ancestry she did indeed most likely have dark hair and eyes and olive skin (I went to the Greek Festival at the nearest Greek Orthodox Church a couple of weeks ago--I go every year altho I (regrettably!) have no Greek ancestry--and most of the hosts there are of Greek descent--and most of them are olive-complected brunettes--good-looking too I might add!!). I've also heard that Cleopatra likely had a few other bits of ancestry in addition to the (mostly) Greek-for example I believe she had a grandmother (?) who was a Syrian--and I would think a Syrian princess most likely would be a brunette! And as several have said--Cleopatra's main attraction was not a "perfect" face. The ancient (translated!!) descriptions I've read of Cleopatra emphasize her grace, her wonderful sense of style, a very lovely speaking voice, enormous charm and remarkable intelligence and education (she spoke for example numerous languages, fluently, including Egyptian--believe it or not, she was the first and only Ptolomaic ruler of Egypt who EVER BOTHERED to learn Egyptian!!!!) Cleo was not your classic beauty, but she was SMART and she had apparently an irresistible charm when she chose. Finally *pause for breath* I keep forgetting to watch HBO's "Rome" but what I've seen is good--would love to see their version of the Queen of the Nile!!!!  ;D
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rskkiya

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Re: Tatiana & Cleopatra
« Reply #82 on: October 23, 2005, 05:30:28 PM »
Quote
 Finally *pause for breath* I keep forgetting to watch HBO's "Rome" but what I've seen is good--would love to see their version of the Queen of the Nile!!!!  ;D


Stacy
Do watch Rome  
You might find this Queen ...ummm....er... different!

LOL
rs



Offline stacey

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Re: Tatiana & Cleopatra
« Reply #83 on: October 23, 2005, 07:43:35 PM »
I will! Thanks for reminding me--can't wait to see the "new and improved" Cleopatra!  ::)
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elfwine

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Re: Tatiana & Cleopatra
« Reply #84 on: October 26, 2005, 08:29:07 PM »
This Cleo is certainly NO 'Liz Taylor' !

ROME - for those who can get HBO - is very well written/well acted/ historically accurate and certainly NOT for the wee kiddies!


elfwine 8)

rskkiya

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Re: Tatiana & Cleopatra
« Reply #85 on: November 15, 2005, 06:46:36 PM »
**Up until recently I have to admit that I thought this topic was silly...However comparing images of the actress playing Cleopatera VII in the HBO ROME series, and images of Tatiana when she had had  her hair cut off are REALLY QUITE STRIKING! (sorry that I don't have the fuction to post them here - :-[  I will work on it.) **
Nevertheless I do not think that Tatiana was in any way a spy or a Mata Hari figure.


elfwine

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Re: Tatiana & Cleopatra
« Reply #86 on: November 15, 2005, 07:23:16 PM »
I cannot locate any pictures of Cleo (with her weird pixie haircut) from ROME at the HBO ROME website...only pictures of her in a ceremonial wig! ARRRRG! :-X

It is a good image to compare with photos of Tatianna in short hair, though  - I agree.
Can anyone else locate the HBO ROME Cleo (wigless) pictures?

Offline Robby

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Re: Tatiana & Cleopatra
« Reply #87 on: November 16, 2005, 03:43:01 AM »
Quote
I do understand that Cleopatera's people were GREEK but they had been in Egypt for quite some time - so anyone with pale white skin would certainly be at a disatvantage ...

PS All my helenic friends, male and female, are all very olive complected...for which they are greatly envied by many.

rs
PPS: Is anyone here watching the HBO series ROME? Rather an interesting Cleo in that one!

 ;)


Cleopatra didn't have a dark or olive skin, she was white. You can read it in books (actually don't read the fiction ones like the books of Margaret George). And look some documantaries, I have plénty of books and documantaries about Cleopatra we're you can see it.

Robby.
“Courage! I have shown it for years; think you I shall lose it at the moment when my sufferings are to end?” Marie Antoinette

Offline Robby

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Re: Tatiana & Cleopatra
« Reply #88 on: November 16, 2005, 03:45:28 AM »
Quote
I cannot locate any pictures of Cleo (with her weird pixie haircut) from ROME at the HBO ROME website...only pictures of her in a ceremonial wig! ARRRRG! :-X

It is a good image to compare with photos of Tatianna in short hair, though  - I agree.
Can anyone else locate the HBO ROME Cleo (wigless) pictures?


I have to say that DON'T watch the movie with Eleonora Verela in it. This movie is SO incorract and bad!
It's an insulting for Cleopatra. In this movie they played her as a dumb woman  :P. And Cleopatra was not dumb!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Robby »
“Courage! I have shown it for years; think you I shall lose it at the moment when my sufferings are to end?” Marie Antoinette

Offline Romanov_fan

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Re: Tatiana & Cleopatra
« Reply #89 on: November 16, 2005, 10:39:43 AM »
I suppose if you really went at you could find things Cleopatra and Tatiana had in common. One might have been that Tatiana always knew she was royalty, a Emperor's daughter. And did not Cleopatra know very well that she was royalty and was to be respected? I doubt Tatiana had any lust for power at all. Cleopatra did, although some of the things she did were because  she had to save herself from her enemies who also desired power.I think it is interesting to compare unlikely figures in history, it makes you more knowlegable about how people connect. I am not half as much a authority on Cleopatra as on Grand Duchess Tatiana, but thats what I think. I have only read a few books on Cleopatra.