Author Topic: "Stuck" jewels  (Read 6754 times)

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Offline Mander

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"Stuck" jewels
« on: January 29, 2006, 10:59:38 AM »
Has there ever been any mention of the jewelry that they were unable to get off when it was collected? I believe Nicholas's wedding ring was stuck and a bracelet of Alexandra's? I hate to think that after their death perhaps they were cut off or if they had been left on the remains surely they would have been in the grave.

Offline Margarita Markovna

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Re: "Stuck" jewels
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2006, 01:32:07 PM »
Weren't there 4 gold bracelets for the GDs too?

Offline Mander

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Re: "Stuck" jewels
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2006, 06:39:27 PM »
I wasn't sure if those were stuck or not? Perhaps they were because their parents had given them to them as children.

Offline Margarita Markovna

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Re: "Stuck" jewels
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2006, 06:42:39 PM »
That's what I read- that they had been given to them as children, and OTMA always wore them, so that they were too tight to take off.

Offline Mie

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Re: "Stuck" jewels
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2006, 11:23:06 AM »
Maybe they did took them off when they killed them. They collected every piece and it's the fact they were not kindfull. There has been found pieces like fingers so it could be bossibly they cut it off or something like that. Hmm.. I ashamed to aks byt I cannot find topic about the box where is little things of them that had been found. Might some of these stuck jewlery be there....? but can anyone send me where is the topic of the box, thankyou :)

Offline Azarias

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Re: "Stuck" jewels
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2006, 03:09:59 PM »
The box I think you are referring to contains the finger of the Empress with a ring still on it, among other things. The box is in the protection of ROCOR. It is believed to have been placed in the walls of a church in Brussels.  These items were discovered at the place of the would be cremation and were found long before the pit in Pig Meadow.

Offline Margarita Markovna

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Re: "Stuck" jewels
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2006, 09:09:24 PM »
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It is believed to have been placed in the walls of a church in Brussels.


Wasn't that proved wrong?

Offline Mander

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Re: "Stuck" jewels
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2006, 07:33:46 PM »
I've read conflicting accounts. One stating that the "remains" I'm assuming including the finger (which may or may not have actually been the empress's as it is said it was NOT manicured and looked like a mans as well) were secretly buried and the remaining items were placed in the church wall. Also, the church supposedly said they had no remains. I'm sure someone else can answer more definitively.

Offline Margarita Markovna

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Re: "Stuck" jewels
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2006, 07:36:05 PM »
Quote
...(which may or may not have actually been the empress's as it is said it was NOT manicured and looked like a mans as well)...


Well, even if it were manicured, it wouldn't necessarily be hers. It could have been Dr. Botkin's- as a doctor, his hands and nails would have been kept clean and manicured.

Edited for punctuation error.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by magpie »

Offline Azarias

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Re: "Stuck" jewels
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2006, 02:48:29 AM »
Regarding the box:

See the epiloge of Nicholas and Alexandra by Robert Massie.

In January of 1919 Nicholos Sokolov assisted by the tutors of the Tsarevitch, Gillard and Gibbs found the remains of the cremation attempt. At that site they collected:

. the belt buckles of the Tsar and Tsarevitch

. Empress Alexandra's emerald cross from Empress Marie

. one of a pair of pearl earrings always worn by Empress
 Alexandra

. the Ulm cross presented to the Empress by her guards

. fragments of a saphirre ring of the Tsar "too tight to be
 ever removed"

. the Tsars metal pocket case in which he carried his
 wife's picture

. 3 small icons worn by the Grand Duchesses

. the Empress' spectacle case

. 6 sets of corset fasteners

. fragments of the military caps of the Tsar and
 Tsarevetich

. shoe buckles of the Grand Duchesses

. Dr. Botkin's eyeglasses and false teeth

. charred bones with marks of acid, axe and saw

. melted bullets

. a severed human finger of a middle-aged woman,
 slender and manicured like the Empress's

. a collection of odds and ends always carried in the
 pocket of the Tsarevitch

I seem to recall mention also of a small vial of human fat left over from a cremation. As I recall Gilliard and his wife took the box containing most if not all of the above. They offered it to Empress Marie who could never accept the IF had been murdered, she refused it. Other family members not wanting to offend her also refused. The British royals were offered the box and they refused it as well. Eventually it was handed over to a bishop of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia. (ROCOR)

For the rest of the story, see:

http://www.monasterypress.com/Royal.html
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Azarias »

Offline Petrushka

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Re: "Stuck" jewels
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2006, 04:00:10 AM »
Hello all,

The Fate of The Romanovs - Greg King/Penny Wilson contains the best and most complete info I've read on the missing box/boxes and resolves the issue of what is actually walled up in the Church of St Job.  There are still many unanswered questions as to these items, but I would highly recommend the book on this specific issue.

Hope it's of use

Offline Azarias

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Re: "Stuck" jewels
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2006, 01:31:56 PM »
Once the box was handed to ROCOR who can really say anything about it? We can only trace as much as we can till that point.

If the box has been placed in the foundation of the Church of St. Job, then it's likely to never see the light of day again. Somewhere in ROCOR we'd like to think there exists an inventory and/or photographs of the contents, but only they would know.

Even if the box is still accessible it doesn't seem likely that ROCOR will allow any examinations or testing.

Offline Petrushka

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Re: "Stuck" jewels
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2006, 03:30:22 AM »
Azarias,
Excuse my poor memory - but there is an inventory and photos of the contents walled up in St Job's.  FOTR discusses it - apparently despite years of mis-information a German journalist was shown these documents and the Church admitted that the box contained most of the items you listed above but DID NOT contain any of the physical remains of the IF itself - where they are remains a mystery.  Again the book goes on to detail that there were a number of cases/boxes containing both the items Sokolov collected from the Four Brothers and several of the personal belongings collected from the homes of the Ipatiev guards (essentially items they had stolen from the IF) and the numerous items which remained in the Ipatiev house once the Whites took the city.  These boxes were distributed between a number of people and locations hence there is no real accuracy as to their current whereabouts - it's one of the topics which is covered very well in the book.

regards

Offline Sarushka

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Re: "Stuck" jewels
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2006, 08:49:37 AM »
Quote
believe Nicholas's wedding ring was stuck and a bracelet of Alexandra's?
I believe the bracelet was a childhood gift to Alix from her uncle, Leopold.


Considering the extensive damage the assassins inflicted on the facial bones of the family & their servants, I doubt whether they had any qualms about removing jewelry in any way possible...  :-X
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