Alexandra and her Health Part 1

[bluetoria]

Clearly Aleksandra Feodorovna was under considerable stress for a long time. Perhaps a Stres Disorder Not Otherwise Specified (SDNos) is as likely or more likely than Panic Disorder.
peace
Alekseevich

Yes, Alekseevich, I think this is more likely than panic disorder since she was, as you write, extremely stressed particularly in the years immediately prior to the revolution. Whether or not it was actually a 'disorder' or rather plain STRESS is a matter for conjecture. Her physical ailments cannot have helped her already nervous & highly-strung personality, particularly when she was faced with one crisis after another.  

[Alexandra]

Salut, Bluetoria (moi, je parle francais aussi),
The Ranke-Heinemann book is very interesting! She is the professor who lost her job at one of the German Catholic universities for her views; she now teaches, I believe, at a secular university.
She has also published works about the Virgin Mary (this is the one that landed her up in all the trouble) and a book called, _Putting Aside Childish Things_ . In some ways, the latter is a bit like the mindset of a Salman Rushdie: that God expects us to make use of our intelligence, that to do so is a responsible aspect of what is called 'Heilsgeschichte' - the German word that Western theologians use to denote 'salvation history.'

_Eunuchs_ exists in a very lively English translation as well as in thr original German; I do not know if there are translations  into other languages, but it is such a good book, I think there ought to be!

[bluetoria]

Thanks, Alexandra - I think in that case I'd probably give the first one a miss, but I may look it up in a book shop & see. (It was the book aboutthe Virgin Mary that put me off. I don't like it when theologians start to destroy things which, IMO, are not childish but child-like.)
Thanks very much for the information; I shall certainly look for them both.
A bientot! (I can't do accents...Martyn tried to show me but I can't!)
 

[Alexandra]

Salut encore, Bluetoria! The book about the BVM was not the same as that about childish things; it had more to do with establishing some things about Her which endorse her humanity.
At the moment, I am sorry to say, I cannot find my copy of _Putting Away Childish Things_, but it is also an interesting book. If memory serves me correctly, it has to do not so much with destruction of any of the more 'folkloric' moments  of belief, as with the Pauline notion that we are about the business of soul work. So it is not a 'sin' if, for instance, we move into a more sophisticated line of thinking than that which colored our earliest religious education. I think, in the end, that both the very simple and the very profound meet - T.S. Eliot's ideas - but this is to stray from Alix and her illnesses, even if it is a topic in which she would have been intensely interested.

A la prochaine (I also cannot do accents here!

[bluetoria]

I think, in the end, that both the very simple and the very profound meet - T.S. Eliot's ideas - but this is to stray from Alix and her illnesses, even if it is a topic in which she would have been intensely interested.

Bonjour Alexandra!
Thank you for the further information about it; that sounds more interesting - and less destrucitve! - than I had first thought. My initital reaction was based on an experience when I, having just returned from Lourdes, was discussing the Rosary & was mocked by a "theologian" "Oh you don't still have that childish belief!"
I should like to hear more about the book if you find it but, as you say, this is way off topic. I'd be interested & grateful if ever you would care to explain any more on, perhaps, the 'discussion about the Orthodox Religion' thread (Imperial Russian History) - I am sure the very kind Orthodox people on that thread would not mind at all; and they always offer very interesting information too.  
Avec amitie!  

[Alexandra]

Merci, Bluetoria ... j'y irai! Et Joyeuses Paques ... avec amitie!

[bluetoria]

Joyeuses Paques a vous aussi, Alexandra! Mais c'est encore Vendredi Sainte (sp?) et c'est un peu triste, je crois. Je dois m'en aller a l'eglise maintenant...A bientot!
(Vous etes catholique aussi?)

[Lisa]

Eyh! Everybody speaks French here!
J'avais oublié que nous sommes Vendredi Saint Aujourd'hui...  
Normalement, dans la religion catholique, toutes les cloches restent muettes jusqu'à Dimanche matin...

Et, Oh mon Dieu, il est 3h30 de l'après midi!!!...

[bluetoria]

Normalement, dans la religion catholique, toutes les cloches restent muettes jusqu'à Dimanche matin...

Et, Oh mon Dieu, il est 3h30 de l'après midi!!!...

Hi Lisa!   Well surely without the bells to remind you, you can be forgiven for not remembering the time!  

[Alexandra]

Hi, Bluetoria - Yes, I am indeed catholique and croyante. So one  cannot help but be triste on Vendredi Saint,  :'(but to look ahead to the joyous Resurrection... I was not sure if you would see my post soon, so I was looking with faith past the tristesse d'aujourd'hui, to the victory which is 'already and not yet.'
Tonight we are already preparing for Sunday!

[bluetoria]

Alexandra,  

[hikaru]

Countess Kamarowskaya, governess of Irina Alexandrovna wrote: I heard that Nicholas said that
" Grishka Raspoutin is better than daily three hysteries".

But Kamarowkaya did not say that if she heard it directrly in the Palace or from somebody else.

[bluetoria]

I BELIEVE (but am not certain) that Nicholas's sister, Olga, reported something similar about her brother's view of Rasputin. She said that he paid little attention to Rasputin's advice - far less than is commonly believed - but to avoid Alix's hysterics allowed her to think he was listening. To some extent I think their later letters support this. There is at least a couple of occasions when Alix writes some message to Nicky from Rasputin and then her next letter is wondering why he hasn't acted on that advice. Again, there are occasions when Nicky warns Alix not to tell Rasputin so much information.
Immediately prior to the Revolutions Alix's letters really do border on hysteria & contain reference after reference to people she 'has never liked' 'never trusted'  'never liked me'....She really did seem to be 'cracking up' And then, once the Revolution came & matters were taken out of her hands, she seemed to me to regain her composure & her dignity and 'rise to the occasion.'

Come to think of it, perhaps her greatest problem was in making decisions. Her endless tortuous deliberations before accepting Nicky's proposal...her NEED for someone to make her mind up for her...be it Philippe or Rasputin...and perhaps for this reason she was always nagging Nicholas to 'be strong.'
Perhaps, too, being the youngest surviving child and the youngest of such dominant, confident & decisive elder sisters as Victoria & Ella, she had never been brought up to make decisions of her own until the time of her marriage...Maybe...

[JaneEyre5381]

BlueToria, as always, great insight.  I think Alix had a lot of issues, and her inability to make decisions may have been due to fear of loosing someone or something (at least in the beginning).  Perhaps she felt that if she were to accept Nikolai's proposal she would loose her identity and such, or maybe even loose him to some horrible illness or accident, as was the case with the loss of her parents.  I'll end on that note, because I'm beginning to loose the main point of my ramblings.  

[bluetoria]

I cannot believe my eyes.  

.

Hi Helen  
That's twice last night someone couldn't believe their eyes at what I wrote!

Alix's endless tortuous deliberations weren't that endless...  ... That she gave in to Nicky's plea and the pressures from relatives at the very last moment and decided to follow her heart may be called weak by some people, but is certainly no sign of indecisiveness.

.

I would not call her inability to decide about this, weakness. But I would still think she deliberated for a VERY long time. As far back as 1888 this had been on her mind (Ella had written to Nicky that in 1888 she was praying for an outcome to this). She had told Nicky she couldn't marry him...but she could not really let him go. It was undoubtedly a difficult decision to make & she was being pulled from all sides....all the same, I think she was quite indecisive about it.

Alix did say to Nicky that he had to be strong on several occasions. However, I would not call that 'nagging' nor see it as a sign of a need for someone to make up her mind for her. Look at the people around us. There are millions of people who tell their spouses occasionally that there is no need for them to let themselves be walked all over in a particular situation at work or at home. Most of us will have made such remarks ourselves. Alix's remarks to Nicky are no different.
.

This wasn't just on one or two occasions though. It was constant. I'll admit this doesn't show Alix as indecisive but I think that perhaps it shows that she despersately needed someone strong to support her, and this was another constant feature throughout her life.

Bluetoria, your remark about Victoria and Ella makes no sense to me at all. They were both several years older than Alix. In the years when Alix could be considered old enough to make her own decisions, both sisters were married women and had left their parental home. If anybody was making decisions for her in the years prior to her marriage, it wasn't Victoria or Ella. She did feel insecure at public events and would cling to her brother in a way Ernst Ludwig may not always have liked, but when it came to every-day decisions that did not relate to their public duties, there is no sign that she was not capable of making decisions in those years.

I think that Ella & Victoria were VERY dominant in her formative years particularly once she had lost her mother. As you write she also clung to her brother. While I was merely speculating on possible reasons for what I view as her indecisiveness, I was just wondering if perhaps the dominant elder siblings were the cause...maybe so, maybe not.

In the whole post I wasn't in any way criticising Alix or calling this a fault, rather I was trying to understand her. It does seem TO ME that there was hardly a time in her life when she didn't rely on a 'stronger' person and only when she was unable to find that in her family, did she turn to outsiders - Philippe, Rasputin. In this she reminds me very much of the line of the original 'Candle in the Wind'...."Never knowing who to cling to when the rain set in."
Perhaps I think this too because - as is the case with so many indecisive people - after ages deliberating about something, she suddenly rushes into impulsive decisions & I think this is very apparent during the war years when Nicky was away at Stavka.  Nicholas too did this, IMO.

(As I wrote, last night, I was only speculating & perhaps I am mistaken & need to think more about this & about your reply & then continue....you see I empathise with her for I am exactly the same   )