Alexandra as Empress and Mother

[Alixz]

I had another thought about speaking English and it has nothing to do with Alix as a mother.

Why can't Americans teach their children how to speak?  I am American and it amazes me how our children murder the "English" language. (Our adults do it as well.)

[leushino]

I had another thought about speaking English and it has nothing to do with Alix as a mother.

Why can't Americans teach their children how to speak?  I am American and it amazes me how our children murder the "English" language. (Our adults do it as well.)

Good question. I'm Canadian by birth (and actually most of my adulthood with the exception of these past seven years) but now reside in the United States. I might have asked the same question, although it seems to me that Americans tend to murder the language more than their Canadian counterparts. It's my own personal bias.  ;)

Why? Well... perhaps laziness, ignorance, poor education, television (MTV-type silliness), movies, video games and so forth. What passes for modern culture but in essence is little more than an erosion of culture has in all probability had a profound effect upon our children. I well recall the children of the 70's saying, "I gots a ...." rather than, "I have a..." We still see this in some of the older Egg and Dairy Board ads: Got Milk? Got Eggs? The grammar is horrendous. This, it seems to me, is but the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

[Alixz]

I noticed about twenty years ago that the word doesn't disappeared from American English.

Everyone says "he don't and she don't" instead of he doesn't...

Also when I answer the phone "This is she" when someone asks for me I usually get complete silence.

Also ain't seems to have made a come back.

I remember a teacher in high school pointing out that "Tell is like it is" should be "Tell is as it is".

[Tania]

  'Yup, englis is gots its good points and bad points',  a young lady once told me...

But, what i hate hearing is, when I ask someone a question, they say to me, 'hold on, le me axe someone, i ain't got the answer here' !

Lol, so much for englis !

Tatiana+

I noticed about twenty years ago that the word doesn't disappeared from American English.

Everyone says "he don't and she don't" instead of he doesn't...

Also when I answer the phone "This is she" when someone asks for me I usually get complete silence.

Also ain't seems to have made a come back.

I remember a teacher in high school pointing out that "Tell is like it is" should be "Tell is as it is".

[Georgiy]

To try and edge the topic back towards Alexandra, I wonder what kind of English she spoke? What kind of accent did she have? Was it similar to how the Queen talks? Was it somewhat German sounding?

(PS. I like, hate how like has, you know, like made its way into teenagers speech in NZ. It's like so annoying.)

[Tsarina_Liz]

To try and edge the topic back towards Alexandra, I wonder what kind of English she spoke? What kind of accent did she have? Was it similar to how the Queen talks? Was it somewhat German sounding?

(PS. I like, hate how like has, you know, like made its way into teenagers speech in NZ. It's like so annoying.)

I imagine she would have spoken proper British English (if there is such a thing) but her German, while grammatical, would not have the proper accent because of the extensive English influence in her childhood (her grandmother, Orchie, teachers, etc.)  But that's just an educated guess.

And, dude, you think that "like" is bad in NZ?  Try coming to America!  There, like, was this kid in one of my classes in like High School who like said like all the time.  We like recorded how much he like used like in like a paragraph and like it came out like to almost every other like word.  Dude.  Totally.  

[Romanov_fan]

I think it is hard to tell what Alexandra sounded like. In my opinion iyou can conjecture on how the people of history spoke but it is hard to say exactly how they spoke. It does seem like English is taking a downturn, but it will most likely be worse fifty years down the line in my opinion.

[leushino]

Like do you really think so?  

[Romanov_fan]

In my opinion, yes, anyway, I think I will move on to other threads...

[Tsarina_Liz]

I think it is hard to tell what Alexandra sounded like. In my opinion iyou can conjecture on how the people of history spoke but it is hard to say exactly how they spoke. It does seem like English is taking a downturn, but it will most likely be worse fifty years down the line in my opinion.

Every generation says English is on a down turn and it can't really be considered "worse" then before linguistically but maybe from a prescritpive perspective.  Darn teenagers, always changing things.  For anyone who's really interested, Harvey Daniels wrote a fascinating paper on langauge and some basic tenets (and misconceptions) called "Nine Ideas About Language."  In it he covers the normality of language change.

Hey!  I think I can relate this to the topic.  Daniel's mentions in his first topic that children learn their native language swiftly and without instruction.  Growing up in a household with multiple languages floating about must have been hard for the girls.  When did Alexandra start teaching them English grammar and such?  Was it right from the start (because it obviously was something she felt was important) or did she put of schooling and let the children learn it naturally from her and their nurses?  Did she encourage the girls to think of English or Russian as they native language?  

[Elisabeth]

Hey!  I think I can relate this to the topic.  Daniel's mentions in his first topic that children learn their native language swiftly and without instruction.  Growing up in a household with multiple languages floating about must have been hard for the girls.  When did Alexandra start teaching them English grammar and such?  Was it right from the start (because it obviously was something she felt was important) or did she put of schooling and let the children learn it naturally from her and their nurses?  Did she encourage the girls to think of English or Russian as they native language?  

I know that children who grow up in a bilingual environment tend to have much smaller vocabularies to begin with than other children. If you think about it, this makes sense because a bilingual child has twice as much work cut out for her as a child raised with only one language. My own stepdaughter was raised bilingual and when she started kindergarten her vocabulary in English was still so small that the teacher actually thought she was retarded! Dumb teacher.

If you look at OTMA's letters in English to their mother it's obvious that their vocabulary, grammar and spelling left much to be desired. Hikaru has written elsewhere that their written Russian was also littered with mistakes. But again, I think this is a fairly common pattern with bilingual children. Of course, speaking a language properly and writing it properly are two entirely different things. My stepdaughter can speak Spanish like a native but she had to take courses in college in order to learn how to write it.

It's interesting that Alexandra used the opportunity of corresponding with OTMA to correct her daughters' written English. There's a letter included in A Lifelong Passion in which she patiently lists each word that Maria or Tatiana (?) mispelled and then gives the correct spelling. But my impression is the girls were mainly taught written English by their tutors. I have no idea when this formal training began, however. Surely not with Gibbes? He came to the household rather late. But come to think of it, maybe Alexandra was the first person to teach her children how to write in English!

As for Russian, I'm sure Alexandra like Nicholas encouraged OTMA to regard it as their native language because they were first and foremost Russian grand duchesses. (BTW, this is one reason why a lot of Russians find Anna Anderson's claim to be Anastasia so ridiculous - the woman flatly refused to speak Russian. What could be more insulting to Russians than this?)    
 

[Alixz]

Dear Tania you had me rolling on the floor.  But you are so right.

I have a very dear friend who always "axes" people.  I would never dream of correcting her, but I almost always think of chopping off someone's head, not "asking" them a question.

I always read that learning a language as a child is so much easier that learning it as an adult.  But the most important thing is learning to "think" in the language.  Not translating in your mind from one language to the other.

I think that bi-lingual people (or multi lingual) are so lucky.

All I ever got from my German speaking side were the "explitives deleted" but also, some of the very special endeaments.

Now I am married into an Italian speaking family (some of whom were born in Italy) and I am quite lost all the time.  Unfortunately, my mother in law (who was born here and is not a native speaking Italian) decided that her children should not be bi lingual, so my husband is in the same boat that I am.  I get all of the Italian "explitives deleted" but at a family gathering, we are both lost.

[Tania]

Hello Alixz,

Sorry if i had you rolling, but the percentage of people who use the word 'axe' is quite high. Some think that this is the right word, but again unfortunately,would not be readily able to spell the word correctly as well.

As a mother, and as her father, we believe in encouraging children to learn languages. I think this is more than a plus for any child. I believe their IH did as well. I believe also, that mother's are very important in allowing their children to love learning, and to read. It's the most important message we can offer in their growth process, as well for their livlihoods to be.

I think in the U.S. we are slowly understanding the gift of offering languages to our students.'Stepping' outside our door, offers a student much, and in learning another language, I think it gives them more incentive to learn more about our global community, rather than being just stationary in thought of just their immediate environment(s).

As to learning languages at an early age, allow me to share with you the following. Our daughter as soon as she could understand, was readily taught, three languages. This started when she was in infancy. By the time she was in pre-k, she could speak, respond in three languages. In high school, she added another language for 3 years. After graduation, she added one more language.

Her dad was born outside the U.S. He was brought up in the same manner. (most children outside the U.S. easily are taught languages early on). Her dad learned 5 languages, his father, I believe 7.

So, I believe it's all in how we are raised, and not live in fear of learning a language or to that of any subject matter, etc. I also understand in Israel, children have a very long day in school, and must learn at least three if not four languages.

Thanks for allowing me to share my thoughts...

Tatiana+

Dear Tania you had me rolling on the floor.  But you are so right.

I have a very dear friend who always "axes" people.  I would never dream of correcting her, but I almost always think of chopping off someone's head, not "asking" them a question.

I always read that learning a language as a child is so much easier that learning it as an adult.  But the most important thing is learning to "think" in the language.  Not translating in your mind from one language to the other.

I think that bi-lingual people (or multi lingual) are so lucky.

All I ever got from my German speaking side were the "explitives deleted" but also, some of the very special endeaments.

Now I am married into an Italian speaking family (some of whom were born in Italy) and I am quite lost all the time.  Unfortunately, my mother in law (who was born here and is not a native speaking Italian) decided that her children should not be bi lingual, so my husband is in the same boat that I am.  I get all of the Italian "explitives deleted" but at a family gathering, we are both lost.

[Tania]

Excusa, but I forgot to add something.   Not only are both my husband and daughter with ability to speak, read, write outside the english language, but invariably, when in a room with these various nationalities, have easily slipped back and forth from one language to another, and sometimes with those whom can as well converse adequately, mix these various international languages together. It's the most amazing thing to see in motion. The first time I saw this, and when my daughter was young, it just about caught me speechless, and that's a hard thing to do. lol.

What's the bottom line of all this, we are all very happy that they have enriched their language ability, as well adding to opening up the door and windows of the world to make more meaningful relationships.   Thanks.

Tatiana+

[Alixz]

Tania  I will take any opportunity I can get to roll on the floor laughing.  I loved your little post.


I know when I was younger, that I would have died if someone suggested that the US have longer school days.

Also, I believe that Spanish as a second language should be taught in all US schools. Not as an option, but as a requirement.  I live on the East Coast and could certainly use a good understanding of Spanish.

Just my humble opinion.