Author Topic: Alexandra as Empress and Mother  (Read 123117 times)

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Offline Belochka

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Re: Alexandra as Empress and Mother
« Reply #180 on: November 12, 2006, 10:19:33 PM »
Well, Nicholas knew exactly what Rasputin did when he was not at the palace. He knew that the things said about Rasputin were real, not not just rumours.

There is no historic basis to this presumption. The truth became the victim. This unfortunate situation has not been correctly addressed in modern English language sources.

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Offline Georgiy

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Re: Alexandra as Empress and Mother
« Reply #181 on: November 13, 2006, 05:49:25 PM »
Could you please elaborate on this Belochka?

Offline Belochka

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Re: Alexandra as Empress and Mother
« Reply #182 on: November 13, 2006, 11:53:38 PM »
Hi Georgiy,

I will be delighted to do so. You will have to wait until the cyber Rasputin Coronial Inquest to better understand who Rasputin really was.

Rasputin was a simple peasant who understood the teachings of the Church. Recent post soviet material from Russia is providing clear evidence that the image portrayed by the media was far from accurate.

Nikolai II was aware of who Rasputin was and was respected by Him and the family members.

Stolypin, Witte and General Kurlov described Rasputin in fair and favorable terms. It was those who never met him or preferred to immerse themselves with Petrograd gossip and politics who believed they knew better.

After the collapse of the Imperial government, the rumors were accepted as fact and became part of history.

Margarita
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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Alexandra as Empress and Mother
« Reply #183 on: November 14, 2006, 11:18:22 AM »
That's very interesting. I would like to hear more about that. It's true that gossip and rumour do stain people's characters sometimes in ways far from the truth. I think that Alexandra and the IF in general often had their name dragged through the mud because of Rasputin, so it would be interesting about the truth of his own reputation.

Offline Georgiy

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Re: Alexandra as Empress and Mother
« Reply #184 on: November 14, 2006, 11:45:01 PM »
Thank you Margarita, that makes perfect sense. There is so much 'mythology' about Rasputin it is very hard for most of us to see what he really was. I have long thought that he was what you have said, qualified with that he had huge iskusheniye (temptations). Maybe he ended up in a state of prelest', but I would not like to judge the man.

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Alexandra as Empress and Mother
« Reply #185 on: November 15, 2006, 07:02:27 PM »
Yes, it was a normal reaction for her to have. I think she never really understood that she wasn't to blame. If it had had happerened nowadays, she might have more understanding of the whole thing.

But even today many women who have hemophiliac children still feels guilty. I do not know why,but it is pretty common as a medical reaction, for even if you know what hemophilia is and how it is transmised, the reality remains that it comes from mother's side and this is the fact that make mothers to think they are to blame... :-\

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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Alexandra as Empress and Mother
« Reply #186 on: November 15, 2006, 08:43:54 PM »
Certainly, you are right. But I now see it that, if you consider her sitiuation as a royal mother, in a monarchy where she was the mother of the the male heir, where only male heirs would allowed to succeed, that even in modern times the sitiuation might be the same, say in Japan that also struggled, but much more so to find a male heir to the throne. In general, had Alexandra lived in a later age, she would have at least been more informed, so maybe she could have made better judgements on her own guilt or not .But, she would not have been that rational about it one wonders, although had she been a commoner, there would have been less pressure on her, so maybe she would have put less pressure on herself. :-\

Offline grandduchess_42

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Re: Alexandra as Empress and Mother
« Reply #187 on: March 19, 2007, 09:56:01 PM »
This thread might be a bit inconventional so please bear with me.  :D

i always wondered if Tsarina Alexandra would use her daughters as pawns accross the monarchs of Europe.
Queen Victoria, Empress Marie-Tereasea (sp) certainly did just that.

Im sure that both queens had the best intresest at heart for their daughters, but back then Men mattered most.
they had "will power".

but do you think that the empress would deliberatly use her daughtesr for satisfaction of spreading their names?
if that was the reason.

Please explain this to me, I would also like to hear your input on this subject.
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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Alexandra as Empress and Mother
« Reply #188 on: March 19, 2007, 10:27:09 PM »
I don't think Alexandra would have deliberately used her daughters' marriages solely for political gain. She realized how very lucky she was that her own marriage was a love match, and hoped for the same for her children, although Alix was a little fearful of letting them go. (There's a letter from Alix to Nicky that says all this, but I'm not sure when it was written, or whether I can find it.)

For example, the IF went to Romania in 1914 so Olga could meet crown prince Carol, a possible suitor. Olga showed virtually no interest in the prince, and the issue was dropped. (Carol later brought up the idea of marrying Maria, but Nicholas dismissed the proposal, saying Maria was too young.) Olga herself told Gilliard, "I am a Russian, and I intend to remain Russain," and I don't recall reading anywhere that Alix ever pressured her daughter one way or the other where the possibility of marriage was concerned.
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Offline Elizaveta

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Re: Alexandra as Empress and Mother
« Reply #189 on: March 20, 2007, 11:59:39 AM »
Perhaps Alexandra would try to find suitors for her daughters that could be seen as political gains, but I don't think she'll push her daughters into marriages to men they didn't love. As Saruska had said, she didn't force Olga to marry Carol. I think she's hoping for a perfect union that can be both a political gain and a love match. Also, there's an issue of haemophilia in Alexandra's family, and it's difficult to find a willing husband to accept the possibility to have carrier daughters and sickened sons. Alexandra must have realized this, and she might have felt that prospects for her daughters' hands were limited due to this problem. So, she's simply striving for best matches possible for her daughters regardless of their suitors' ranks (as long as he's a prince, I suppose!).

grandduchess_42, I think it's a fascinating topic to bring up! It really got me thinking  :)
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Offline Georgiy

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Re: Alexandra as Empress and Mother
« Reply #190 on: March 24, 2007, 09:05:03 PM »
It is indeed an interesting topic. I think, knowing of Alexandra's deep Orthodox Faith, if she was going to marry her daughters politically, then she would have been perhaps more likely to look towards other Orthodox nations - as indeed, Romania is.

Offline RomanovFan

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Re: Alexandra as Empress and Mother
« Reply #191 on: April 11, 2007, 06:28:44 PM »
I agree with Sarushka. I don't think Alexandra would have forced her daughters to marry just to make a good political match. When the Imperial Family went to Romania in 1914, Olga made it clear that she refused to marry Crown Prince Carol and that she would always remain a Russian. But at the same time, I think she and Nicky both may have pushed their girls (once they became of marriagable age) to wed the best royal they saw fit at the time. I believe there was some talk in 1913/1914 just before the outbreak of war that it would have been a good idea if Olga married Edward, Prince of Wales (Edward VIII). But nothing ever came of it.

Since she was the oldest daughter, Olga probably would've been expected to marry before her sisters, and Alexei being the only boy and heir, would have certainly been expected to make a good marital match as soon as he was old enough. I'm pretty sure Alexandra would have put more pressure on her son to marry well than any of her daughters.
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Offline clockworkgirl21

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Re: Alexandra as Empress and Mother
« Reply #192 on: May 09, 2007, 09:33:30 PM »
Anyone know at which conditions she allowed her daughters to see Aleksey when sick? She worked so hard to shelter her kids from anything she thought would harm them, it sounds weird that she'd let them in to see their brother when he could die at any moment. But maybe she only let them see him when he was recovering, since they only wrote in their diaries that they read to him, and the adults wrote that he was "screaming with pain." But in Spala, wasn't Aleksey almost always on the brink of death? They did go in to see him, then. But everyone did expect him to die, maybe she thought OTMA needed to be with Aleksey in what easily could have been his last moments. Have anything?

Offline Rodney_G.

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Re: Alexandra as Empress and Mother
« Reply #193 on: May 16, 2007, 10:13:45 PM »



  I don't think there were any restrictions at all on OTMA seeing Alexei sick. It's as well to remember that they adored him from birth and his bouts of illness began not long after, occurring sporadically throughout his life. Their rooms were not far apart at the AP and I think they would have been comfortable visiting him and cheering him up. Anastasia especially was close to him.

It's true it would have been very hard on them (or anyone) at those moments when he was in real agony but then it was most often Alexandra with him.

Generally speaking, Alexandra's sheltering of OTMA  was in the nature of keeping them from contact with people and situations of what she thought of as a morally dubious character, not from exposure to life's sufferings. She thought it quite valuable for the girls to visit the sick in hospitals and to value and appreciate their own great material comfort and good fortune., and that there was indeed great suffering in the real world.
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Offline Belochka

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Re: Alexandra as Empress and Mother
« Reply #194 on: May 16, 2007, 10:57:40 PM »
One consideration relating to Alexei's episodic bouts was that the family was drawn closer together. However it was always Alexandra who constantly stayed by Alexei's bed during his most painful hours.

Margarita


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