Victoria, Marchioness of Milford Haven- part II

[Eric_Lowe]

This is not a garden party and people who are talked about dead. Be realistic. If you google Ella of Hesse. You can still find info on her as Empress Frederick was constantly referred to "vicky" to differentiate her from her mother Queen Victoria. Lets not even going into the Marie's. I don't think you will know who I am  talk about if I wrote "Grand Duchess Marie of Russia" but if I said "Miechen" then everybody would say Aha !

[grandduchessella]

Who said anything about a garden party or offending people? I said that it was the policy of the Forum to avoid FAMILY nicknames--those not widely used which are completely acceptable in the Forum. People say Missy and Ella and Eddy and Moretta. Some people don't like that but there's never been an admonition against it like the 'cozy' nicknames.  Most people wouldn't know Marie Loo so your point about making it easier actually is the opposite.

[Eric_Lowe]

I agree with you completely. A friend with another forum told me that typing Marie Alexandrovna every time in every sentence is a bit excessive. So Marie Coburg was used instead. She was the only Marie that linked with Coburg. Her 4 daughters, her niece by Marriage (Victoria Adelheid or "Dick") or her daughters (Sybilla & Caroline Mathilde) were not named Marie.

[Kalafrana]

Ah, but Marie of Romania (daughter of Marie Alexandrovna) was Marie of Edinburgh and Coburg before her marriage!

In the case of Russians, patronymics make things a lot easier, although we are still left with two Marie Pavlovnas.


Eric
You are busily backing yourself into a corner!

Ann

[grandduchessella]

Or was suggested something along the lines of the various Victorias--Victoria (Toria), Victoria (Moretta) and so on. Putting the nickname in parenthesis next to the full name helps to identify but still help the search feature. It could be done with the Marie P's Marie Pavlovna (Miechen) and Marie Pavlovna (Jr).

[Eric_Lowe]

Yes. I agree with you completely Grandduchessella. Miechen & Marie Paulvona (JR) works ! I always write about them as Toria, Moretta or Ducky (all three Princesses Victorias).

[HerrKaiser]

Not to beat a near-dead horse, but I started the chat about misuse and/or abuse of name-labels for the personalities being discussed in this forum, so here is a final thought. I fully agree with and accept the practice of using nicknames that are terms of endearment in order to clarify the individual's identity, however it's the pejorative names and name calling that is out of line.  "the Brat" to refer to Princess Charlotte and "the cow" to refer to Kaiserin Augusta are simply acts of disrespect that should not be used here.

[Eric_Lowe]

First of all Charlotte herself signed "Charly The Brat" (if you don't believe me you can asked the archives in Windsor Castle) to her family and friends. Far from being annoyed she was almost smug and proud of the fact. So if she is standing here in front of you, she would have told you "I don't mind". As for "Dona" being called "the cow from Holstein". That was Bismark, who (I don't think he liked women) who approved of her 3 Ks (totally opposite of "The English Woman", his nemesis The Crown Princess). I agree that wasn't very dignified, and should not be used but to cross reference to Bismark's comment. 

[HerrKaiser]

Yes, Eric, we've covered the fact that Charlotte signed a photo that you promote as a pivotal point in history, but the attitude of others on this forum is that her action in this regard should not be used to maintain a degradation campaign against her. Same is true for Dona; Prince Bismarck's remark was tacky and offensive and should not be used as an ongoing label for Empress Augusta simply because of your personal dislike for her and the way she handled her difficult family situation.

[Eric_Lowe]

I think since she herself did not think that was a "degradation" "Charley the brat" she would remain, I think you are beating a dead horse in her case. Would she be more offensive than Ivan The Terrible on his term in history. I think you will be laughed out of history class if you suggest we should not run a degradation campaign against this Tsar. As for Dona. I never called her "the cow from Holstein" which actually sums out what Bismark thinks about her character. It wasn't an ongoing label. Separate cases separate responses. I think this is my final answer on this.

[grandduchessella]

I think it's time to move back to topic.

[Eric_Lowe]

Agree 100%. I wonder if Charlotte wrote to her mother or grandmother ?

[grandduchessella]

Well, the topic is Victoria Milford-Haven not Charlotte.

[Eric_Lowe]

Did VMH got along with Charlotte ? I think their ages are not too far apart.

[Превед]

Yes. I agree with you completely Grandduchessella. Miechen & Marie Paulvona (JR) works !

Instead of descending to vulgar pseudo-familiarity, why not differentiate between them by means of their titles, which are not the same in Russian: Великая княгиня, Velikaya knyaginya, MP vs. Великая княжна, , Velikaya knyazhna, MP!?