Author Topic: Alexandra and the Queens Consorts of her Time - most were related  (Read 53206 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ashanti01

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1570
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
I just gave some serious thinking to this...

Empress Alexandra and Queen Mary both had ill sons. Granted John wasn't the direct heir, but still its seems rather odd ( at least to me) that Queen Mary didn't show much attention to John during his short life.

Alexandra was devoted to Alexei, perhaps more than any royal mother could have been. They both had English backgrounds, and I know some English royals are more ...reserved than others, but still a mother is a mother and why would one show more compassion than the other?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2009, 05:40:12 PM by Alixz »

Offline Ilana

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 730
  • I love any info on VMH
    • View Profile
    • Queen Victoria's Granddaughters
Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2004, 09:13:02 PM »
This said totally without sarcasm... because they're very, very different people.
So long and thanks for all the fish

Annie

  • Guest
Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2004, 09:24:42 PM »
That is very sad. Alexei was lucky to have had such love.

Offline ashanti01

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1570
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2004, 12:03:08 AM »
Quote
This said totally without sarcasm... because they're very, very different people.


What do you mean?

I'm trying to be honest, because in all truth on what I have read about Queen Mary, I have not been able to understand her character and I'm hoping someone who has read more about her can enlighten me as to why she reacted so differently to her son's illness then Alix did with her son? Maybe it just came off the wrong way

elisa_1872

  • Guest
Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2004, 04:55:14 AM »
Hi Ashanti,

Yes, this is an interesting question! Queen Mary has always been something of an enigma to me too. Although Prince John suffered from epilepsy, and the Tsarevich haemophilia, both Queen Mary and the Empress seem to have been very watchful over their play activities so they were safe. But as mothers, their attitudes seem to have been extremely different - although Alexei was not seen during his periods of illness, when he was well he was always in public, at reviews, etc. to prepare him for his role, and even when he was not well, carried by a Cossack in public. Queen Mary seems to have had the opposite approach - to keep her child fairly isolated, or at least unseen by most. The Empress was undoubtedly the loving and devoted mother, and i've always got the impression that Queen Mary did not spend too much time with Prince John? His family "visited" him when the could, and he was at the end liviing in a separate establishment, with his own household.  One of the Empress's most strong characteristics, is that she was utterly devoted to her family, and family life. I have only seen one photograph of Queen Mary with Prince John. Im sure she cared for her son as for the rest of her children, but she and the Empress demonstrated it differently.

Maybe someone who knows more about Queen Mary can post here?

Offline grandduchessella

  • Global Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 13039
  • Getting Ready to Move to Europe :D
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2004, 09:18:21 AM »
A lot of the situations were very different. Alexandra retreated from court life to a disastrous extent while QM and GV had a great number of duties they carried out--including a long overseas voyage they were sent on while Duke and Duchess of York. They couldn't or wouldn't retreat from the public eye like N&A did. Plus they were of very dissimilar natures. Alexandra was much more hands on while QM it has been noted loved her children very much but was never comfortable with them during certain ages. Her nature was just too reserved. I think this has often been misconstrued as uncaring--somewhat ironic seeing as how much Alexandra is defended as misunderstood. QM isn't afforded that defense. Prince John also had a much different illness than Alexei--it would've been horrible for him and the family if he'd had an epileptic seizure while in full public. That type of condition was horribly misunderstood back then. So while he didn't appear at many public events (keeping his young age in mind also) he wasn't a "lost prince" to contemporaries. He appeared on postcards alone and with his family (also the stamps issued during his father's reign) and his death was covered pretty extensively (though of course not in detail) by the papers of the day. I always got the impression that for a good period of his life QM spent MORE time with him than her other children. She treasured his little notes and his stories made her laugh. Again I say, I don't think it was horrible to send him to live with Lala Bill. Better that he have someone completely devoted to him than parents who were too busy and who were uncomfortable around illness--also to be away from stressful factors and public scrutiny (for his own sake). People today send ill children away to homes, care facilities, etc...for a variety of reasons, some noble some not so. Considering this was almost 100 years ago I don't think it was a surprising or cruel decision.
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
Come visit on Pinterest--http://pinterest.com/lawrbk/

Sarai_Porretta

  • Guest
Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2004, 10:10:12 AM »
Quote
Alexandra was much more hands on while QM it has been noted loved her children very much but was never comfortable with them during certain ages. Her nature was just too reserved. I think this has often been misconstrued as uncaring--somewhat ironic seeing as how much Alexandra is defended as misunderstood. QM isn't afforded that defense.


I think this is a very good point. Both were shy women, and misunderstood as being cold and haughty by the public, yet Alexandra is viewed more sympathetically. I think it may be because we know so much more about Alexandra. A great deal of her letters and diaries have been published, and we can see that in private she was not really what she was perceived to be in public. She was very affectionate and loving with her husband and children, and so we understand that any standoffish behavior in public was due to her shyness.

Now, I don't know very much about Queen Mary, so I don't know how many of her letters and private papers have been published, and if it's comparable to the amount written about Alexandra. Perhaps because of the fact that she didn't even feel comfortable around her own children, she is vilified as being a bad mother. In some ways, she seems almost shyer than Alexandra, because even though she could go out and perform her social duties much better, she was still reserved within her own close family circle. As a shy person myself, I understand being bashful in public but I couldn't imagine being quite so reserved and shy with my own husband and children.

Offline James_Davidov

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 248
    • View Profile
Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2005, 05:23:18 AM »
There was also a huge difference between their conditions.  Alexei was essentially a very ‘normal’ boy, whilst his condition caused attacks of incredible illness, when in good health he was mentally ‘normal’…  I figure that this differs from Prince John, as his condition effected him socially, and thus the way that Mary could relate to him.
You are a member of the British royal family. We are never tired, and we all love hospitals.
Queen Mary

samcr

  • Guest
Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2005, 08:17:07 AM »
Hi

has anyone see " The Lost prince"
which is all about Prince John's life , its really good,
it also has  Tsar Nicholas and his family in it,
its out on Dvd its a BBC drama. It  also gives some intresting facts about Queen mary .

Offline grandduchessella

  • Global Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 13039
  • Getting Ready to Move to Europe :D
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2005, 11:49:29 PM »
Quote
Hi

has anyone see " The Lost prince"
which is all about Prince John's life , its really good,
it also has  Tsar Nicholas and his family in it,
its out on Dvd its a BBC drama. It  also gives some intresting facts about Queen mary .


Oh man, don't get me started on that movie! I love Miranda Richardson but that was a hatchet job. Oh, BTW, this isn't a criticism of your opinon--welcome to the Forum!  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by grandduchessella »
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
Come visit on Pinterest--http://pinterest.com/lawrbk/

Alicky1872

  • Guest
Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2005, 03:32:47 AM »
Quote

Oh man, don't get me started on that movie! I love Miranda Richardson but that was a hatchet job. Oh, BTW, this isn't a criticism of your opinon--welcome to the Forum!  :)


I loved how when it first came out, us in the UK were talking about how bad it was, and the Americans were going "Oh, it couldn't have been that bad. You're being too critical, the director has to have some artistic license, etc." ---then when it came out in the US, you actually saw how bad it really was! It still upsets me, how Alix (AF) was portrayed...

Sunny

  • Guest
Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2005, 06:31:38 AM »
Quote
From Alicky:

It still upsets me, how Alix (AF) was portrayed...


I found that portrayal offensive. Artistic license...more like dissembling.

Sunny

bluetoria

  • Guest
Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2005, 06:03:45 PM »
Trying to forget the abominable 'Lost Prince' (Cousin Willy & Alix what caricatures!!!!), in reality, is there any info about how well Alix & Queen Mary 'got on' with each other? I know George & Nicky corresponded amicably...I just can't really picture Alix & Mary together. (Especially since Mary knew that Alix had rejected Eddy so she was his 2nd...3rd...4th (?) choice.)
Alix & Missy of Roumania in June 1914 - total clash of personalities....but with their joint adherence to tradition &  high morals maybe Alix & May might have been friends??

Offline grandduchessella

  • Global Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 13039
  • Getting Ready to Move to Europe :D
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2005, 09:47:29 PM »
Actually I don't think Mary had enough ego as simple May Teck to care that she was down the line in choosing a bride for Eddy. I don't know how much Alix & Mary even met. There was the famous Cowes get-together but were there any others? QV & GV got married in 1893 but she didn't go to the Coburg wedding in 1894 (pregnancy?) and she didn't go to Russia when AIII died though GV did. QM was at the wedding of the Kaiser's daughter in 1913 but AF wasn't. Were either George or Mary at Alice Battenberg's wedding? I don't remember them in photos. I guess they would've seen each other when Alix & Nicholas visited England in 1896 but that was the only time Alix came back to England until the Cowes visit. She wasn't at the 1897 Jubilee. Not knowing each other that well personally or being closely related (like GV & NII and GV and AF) I don't know as they'd communicate. It seems like George & Nicky did most of the writing. They both were serious, traditional women with a love of cultural things so they'd probably get along all right but past that I don't know. And funny thing is QM and Missy got along great!
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
Come visit on Pinterest--http://pinterest.com/lawrbk/

Offline griffh

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2005, 10:43:50 PM »
Bluetoria I agree with you about Mary and Alix possibly not being too friendly.  I think Mary was far more German than Alix.  I heard and I don't know if it is true that when Queen Mary christened the Normandy her voice was broadcast on the radio and the British wanted to know who that German lady was and that she never spoke on the radio again.    

I think, like the Kaiserina who was a good German Lutheran, Mary was put off by the Orthodox show of religion.  I read somewhere that during a visit to Berlin, Alix was followed by Orthodox priests who were chanting, swinging incents and sprinkling water all over everything and the Kaiserina found this religious display very inappropriate and held a grudge against Alexandra for giving up her sensible, moderate Lutheran heritage.  I am sure that Mary must have shared the same kind of feelings.  

I think that Mary placed duty above all else as her way of of showing how much she respected her elevated position.  And I don't think that she was delibrately heartless, I think that there just big pieces of her emotional developement missing.  You know the famous story of her collection of fabrege and how she would invite Xenia to tea so the Czar's sister could identify Mary's newly acquired Fabrege pieces.  

I believe the story goes that at one of these teas Mary asked Xenia what this pink enamel box was and Xenia told her its purpose.  "But," says Mary, "It appears to be too big for that purpose, so how do you know?  Xenia replies, "Because it was given to me as a gift on my birthday."  Mary approves the answere and puts it back in her glass case and Xenia returns to her "grace and favor" house at Frogmore.  

The other thing that separates Alix and Mary is love, Nicky defied everyone in order to marry Alix, George obeyed everyone in order to marry Mary.  The one was a love match and the other was union that was based on mutual respect that gradually grew into affection.  And where one could not imagine Alix living without Nicky, Mary biographer, Pope-Hennessy said that Mary did not really blossom as an individual until after her husband died.  

I feel that they do share some similarities, their frugal nature, their deep seated loyalty to the throne, their shyness, their conservatism, and their moral piety.