Author Topic: Alexandra and the Queens Consorts of her Time - most were related  (Read 53207 times)

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Offline mitia

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Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2005, 03:22:40 PM »
I feel as intrigued than HerrKaiser by the " quote " from the Queen. There must be some misunderstanding : everyone knows ( it is in every single book about the IF ) that Nicholas was devastated when he heard about the separate peace of Brest-Litovsk and that then he regretted his abdication because he would never have signed for a separate peace with the germans. I just cannot think of anyone in the UK, France or the USA that would call Nicholas " a traitor ",  he was such a ever loyal ally, sending his troops to France and thus endangering his own russian front etc... I cannot imagine the Queen beeing from a different opinion. And IF EVER she is, she is a woman of duty before everything and would never speak that kind of opinion in public at a garden party !
Please, ask your princess-friend for some more explanations ! Thanks.

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Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #61 on: September 22, 2005, 11:34:19 AM »
I'm also intrigued!! One of the reasons why Nicholas abdicated was to keep Russia in the war and to prevent civil war from breaking out. He was consistently loyal to his allies...which (as has beens stated on other threads) is more than can be said for George V...
I agree, Herr Kaiser, Wilhelm would I think have gone to any lengths to help his cousins and, in the end, showed stronger 'family ties' than his British counterparts.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bluetoria »

Offline Romanov_fan

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Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #62 on: November 15, 2005, 11:30:46 AM »
Boy this is a long thread, and everybody really has something to say. I skimmed this, and I think it is true that these women rarely met and can't be said to have too much in common with each other. They had different personalities, but to me Alexandra is the more interesting and beautiful. Oh yes, she made mistakes, whereas Queen Mary famously lived a long and sucessful life. But Mary was blessed with healthy children, all sons except for one. She had of course a sick son, but he was the youngest and she had many others. Mary lived in a uncomplicated country, and didn't have too really worry about or be involved in politics. Alexandra lived in a very complicated country for poltical matters.

These consorts were both shy, but Queen Mary did her duty, and performed in public well. Alexandra never did this, she appeared haughty, reserved, and unhappy. Whereas she wasn't half as bad as she appeared. But Alexandra let her guard down in private, and was a very animated and charismatic person. The Tsarina Alexandra we are fans of today, is the private one, who was close to her family. We don't revere the public one, which is all the Russian People ever saw. Queen Mary was quite reserved in private too, and never was very maternal or let her guard down in private life. She may be just as much a character
to be fascinated with as Alexandra, but the truth is, we will never know at all.

Quuen Mary had the concept that royalty have a duty to their people, whereas I believe tht Alexandra thought her people had a duty to her. The modern concept of duty in the British royal family owes much to Queen Mary, in my opinion. She had a stiff upper lip in public and private life. Alexandra had the fatal quality of not knowing how to express herself in public, or she might have. She did not hesitate to do so in private. Queen Mary believed in being reserved in both areas, or at least acted as if she did. Queen Mary had a easier life, and Alexandra faced many challenges, which did not suit her personality, and were difficult to for her. I think Alexandra had feeling, but didn't always know how to express it, and Queen Mary might not have had any.Alexandra was very lovely in youth, but care and worry took a toll on her looks, whereas Queen Mary looked much the same all her life, not stunning, but pretty. I don't think Queen Mary was mean although she was not always thoughtful of fellow royals. I think she was of those below her. Alexandra was not thoughtful to those below her, very much, but she was to her close family.I guess it would be a good bet to state these women didn't have much in common, and coudn't have been friends. I think that they have some traits in common, but they were different people. Today, we should have Queen Mary's attitude in public, Tsarina Alexandra's in public. And that is my treatise, too. So give me your thoughts ;)I know much about both women.

Offline Romanov_fan

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Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #63 on: November 15, 2005, 11:32:44 AM »
I meant we should have Tsarina Alexandra's attitude in private ;)

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #64 on: November 15, 2005, 08:57:11 PM »
I really enjoyed it romanov_fan.   And as a QM partisan I'm hard to please.  :)

I would just add that QM knew her share of tragedy though--not just Prince John, but also suffering through the deaths of the Duke of Kent and George VI not to mention the abdication and subsequent estrangement from her eldest son. She also nursed GV through various illnesses from basically his severe injury in 1917 to his death in 1935--the most serious being his near-death in 1929. She did this as devotedly as Alexandra would've to Nicholas. To outlive not just your spouse (who she greatly loved--I believe they loved each other very much despite their shy natures--witness their letters) but 3 of your 6 children is a large burden. Add to that the fact that she was basically forced out of her mourning to do her duty and put on a strong public face during the Abdication.

One thing the two women had in common was that they both seemed to put their husbands above themselves and even their children--Alexandra's legendary devotion to Alexei notwithstanding. QM was more famous for it but Alix would choose to go with Nicholas to Tobolsk, leaving 4 of the children behind, a possibly fateful decision.
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Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2005, 02:17:04 AM »
Quote
 I think that the Brits have a considerable amount of guilt that colors their attitude toward the Romanoff’s and even the Kaiser.

My friend, Princess Holstein, who was studying painting in NYC said that she was once publicly rebuked by Queen Elizabeth II at a garden party for. what the Queen considered, the betrayal of Nicholas II for  the revolution and the eventual withdrawal from WWI.  That is guilt speaking it defense.  


This is very interesting! I really find it difficult though believing that QEII would publicly rebuke someone on a matter such as that. :)

I know this has been discussed on other threads but i really feel George V's role in all the asylum issue etc has been totally blown out of proportion. I always think it is interesting that the Duke of Windsor, never one to defend his father, actually did say that his father wasn't credited enough for doing all he could to save his cousins.

Again i'ts all about Hindsight... :)

Anyway sorry! Back to these two amazing Empresses!!
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Offline Romanov_fan

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Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2005, 10:30:41 AM »
In her later life, towards the end of her life, I think Queen Mary did face more challenges than she did earlier on. Yet she did remain the same, and faced her public and private duties n the same way. What would Tsarina Alexandra have done under these pressures? I think some of her children brought Queen Mary grief, most notably her eldest son. She considered what he did a betrayal of all he ought to have stood for. Tsarina Alexandra was devoted to her children, and Queen Mary was too, although she did not express it, and her family was not the focal point of her life. Queen Marie of Romania's eldest son also brought her great grief. It would have been interesting to see if Alexandra's children would have brought her grief in later years. I am fascinated with both women, and think that there is much to admire in both.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 11:36:20 AM by Alixz »

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #67 on: March 01, 2011, 10:50:15 AM »
I think, like the Kaiserina who was a good German Lutheran

Lol, "Kaiserina" makes me think of Alexander III's Finnish fishing buddy "Kejsar-Fina"!
But this little slip illustrates very well how Zarin morphed into tsarina.

But the clever Queen--Mary of Teck--speaking English with a slight guttural accent, began referring to herself as "English from top to toe."

Judging from this clip I'd rather say Queen Mary had that Upper RP accent whose very clipped or tense vowels can sound rather similar to Standard High German. The extreme non-rhoticity combined with the occasional rolled r of Upper RP can also sound rather (North) German and/or foreign. (Just like Estuary English or Cockney with their glottal stops can sound rather Danish.)

Of course this was an official recording and she might have spoken more idiosyncratic in private, but knowing her character, I doubt it!
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 11:01:29 AM by Фёдор Петрович »

Alixz

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Re: Alexandra and the Queens Consorts of her Time - most were related
« Reply #68 on: March 03, 2011, 10:04:00 AM »
Perhaps is was a typo.  The title of the Kaiser's wife (consort) is Kaiserin.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 11:00:55 AM by Alixz »

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Alexandra and the Queens Consorts of her Time - most were related
« Reply #69 on: March 03, 2011, 10:33:11 AM »
Perhaps is was a typo.
Yes, a "Freudian" typo. :-) I loved it!
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 10:44:06 AM by Фёдор Петрович »

Offline LauraO

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Re: Alexandra and the Queens Consorts of her Time - most were related
« Reply #70 on: March 04, 2011, 02:34:59 PM »
as far as QM having a german accent, i don't know, but i read that  her father in law Edward had a slightly german accent due to the fact that he spoke german far better than english when he was young and due to...i think it was...a slight speech impendiment or something he pronounced many things with a german edge. anyone know? this semed odd, i would have thought that a german accent in a future monarch would have been stamped out at an early age. if QM had a german accent then that would be different.

also, missy keeps cropping up, i've never seen the real flare about her,  why everyone raves about her, can anyone explain the reason that she comes across as so wonderful to so many. am i missing something? i know its personal preference and lots of us like royals that other don't, but missy seems to have a mass following. i've always just seen her as slightly arrogant with a bit of an ego problem. what am i missing?

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Re: Alexandra and the Queens Consorts of her Time - most were related
« Reply #71 on: March 04, 2011, 05:59:50 PM »
as far as QM having a german accent, i don't know
Listen to the Youtube clip in my post above and judge for yourself.

Quote
but i read that  her father in law Edward had a slightly german accent due to the fact that he spoke german far better than english when he was young and due to...i think it was...a slight speech impendiment or something he pronounced many things with a german edge. anyone know?
Edward VII's "German accent" was described as "a burr", i.e. a guttural / uvular / Parisian r. Does anybody know if Queen Alexandra also spoke with a uvular r in English? I presume she learned both Danish and German with the uvular r in her childhood.

It is fascinating that the uvular r, spreading from Paris, became common in European capitals like Copenhagen and Berlin before it reached many rural corners of France. In Sweden it's also known as "count's r", because it was so typical of the aristocratic sociolect. Through the influence of Copenhagen it's also common in Scania and adjoining parts of southern Sweden. I think Denmark is the only country in the world where practically all native speakers regardless of age now use the uvular r!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 06:15:29 PM by Фёдор Петрович »

Offline Превед

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Re: Alexandra and the Queens Consorts of her Time - most were related
« Reply #72 on: April 10, 2014, 03:10:21 PM »
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Alexandra and the Queens Consorts of her Time - most were related

In Norway one often forgets that Alexandra Fyodorovna was Queen Maud's first cousin (and her husband King Haakon's first cousin). Therefore it was funny to see her mentioned as a comparison to Maud in a breastfeeding debate.
Stavanger Aftenblad: Kong Olav hadde også amme.
(The debate was about whether women were OK with breastfeeding other women's babies and a historical line was drawn to the upper classes, including Queen Maud, preffering wetnurses for social, aesthetic, ideological and practical reasons and AF was one of the royals who broke with this tradition.)

Egalitarian (nouveaux-riches) Norwegians are true "rednecks" when it comes to aristocracy and royalty, so the newspaper correctly styled Alexandra keiserinne (empress), no doubt because the journalist and her readers have never heard about the term tsarina or tsaritsa. (Evidence: An official photo was chosen instead of the countless family photos or the depiction of AF nursing Olga from Le petit journal).
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: Alexandra and Other Queens
« Reply #73 on: April 12, 2014, 10:32:32 AM »
My friend, Princess Holstein, who was studying painting in NYC said that she was once publicly rebuked by Queen Elizabeth II at a garden party for. what the Queen considered, the betrayal of Nicholas II for  the revolution and the eventual withdrawal from WWI.  That is guilt speaking it defense.

Unless she was a Princess of Schleswig-Holstein, perhaps she made up that unlikely quote just like her title?
Or a Staël von Holstein who "combined" her surname with a Russian princely title (e.g. Lieven?) she had acquired by marriage or vice versa? Anyway it sounds dubious.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 10:51:59 AM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Clemence

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Re: Alexandra and the Queens Consorts of her Time - most were related
« Reply #74 on: April 21, 2014, 05:38:23 AM »
Queen Sophie of Greece, Sophia of Prussia, was also related to Alexandra ... I wish I knew if they were at some point of their lives friends. They were almost of same age and grew up in Germany, both married in the Orthodox faith and changed their own, both found it difficoult to adjust in their new countries. Sometimes I thought they might have other things in common, because of how people in their adopted countries never really loved them or accepted them. During WWI both women were considered to have more and very different political influence than they really did - Sophia was accused to be pro German because of her being a sister of the Kaizer and noone in Greece seemed to care how poor her relations with her older brother had always been, nor that she was a grandaughter of Queen Victoria. She lost a son without being able to get the permission from the Greek government to come back from exile to be with him in his last hours. She died in exile.
Is there any corrispeondence between Alexandra and Sophia that you know of?
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