Elizabeth (daughter of Ernie)

[Kalafrana]

I'm not sure that 17 was the norm for marriage in the 1890s, which is the time we are talking about. Not particularly unusual, but still the age for royal and aristocratic marriages was gradually creeping up. Even if marriages at 17 was considered normal, it doesn't necessarily mean that it was going to be a success.
Ann

[Eric_Lowe]

I think 17 is too early for marriage, but at the time it is fairly normal in aristocratic and noble families. I do not mean that Marie Nicholievna was man crazy, but she wasn't intellectually inclined or ambitious in nature like her mother Alicky (who married rather late). But many in the family were flirtatious and longing to experiment with the opposite sex. Marie Kyrillovna & Ileana of Romania both belong to the later category and both had affairs even though they got married. Victoria Melita wasn't ready for that and without a guiding hand (Alicky at least have Dagmar), she created her own independent world. She did love Elisabeth, but her experience with a stern mother kept her from being more demonstrative, while Ernie whose experience with Alice was very different. Remember he gave her "the kiss of death". Marie Coburg would not have done that...she was much more practical than emotional.

[grandduchessella]

I'm not sure that 17 was the norm for marriage in the 1890s, which is the time we are talking about. Not particularly unusual, but still the age for royal and aristocratic marriages was gradually creeping up. Even if marriages at 17 was considered normal, it doesn't necessarily mean that it was going to be a success.
Ann

I meant more for royal marriages but indicated further on that Marie Coburg believed in marrying princesses as early as possible. Yes, by this time, 17 was regarded as on the youngish side but not as unusual as today. I don't think many royals would've blinked an eye at the age of the bride. As I said, a lot depended on the inherent personalities of the couple involved and both VM and EL were rather immature for their ages.

[Eric_Lowe]

Well...Some girls mature earlier than others. In the case of VM it was more because of QV, who lost Missy to Romania than she insist that a second Edinburgh/Coburg daughter not to be lost. Marie Coburg was happy at the match as Ernie was more of a happy-go-lucky guy and he is rich and can offer her a nice position. She did not realize that VM needed more in a marriage. Many marriage went through ups and downs but remained solidly married. Like Missy & Nando, Sophie Charlotte & Ferdinand of Alencon, Sisi & Franz Josef and Sandra & Ernst of Hohenlohe-Langenberg...

[Kalafrana]

Interestingly, according to 'Young Prince Philip', when his parents married in 1903, aged 21 and 18, there was a good deal of concern among their relations because of their ages. Now it may be that they were more concerned about Andrew's age than Alice's, but even so.

Ann

[grandduchessella]

VMH was more pragmatic than most--I'm not surprised that she had concern. Two of her granddaughters (Philip's sisters) were all married off young. Cecile was 20 while Sophie had only turned 16 a few months prior. VMH herself married just a couple weeks past 19, Ella was 19.  Then Ernie was 26 and just as immature as VM. Alix was 22 and would've married years earlier if she had come around on the religion issue.  I think it just depends on the people involved and their circumstances.

[Eric_Lowe]

One must remember that in those days a woman's future is only assured if she is married. Under those circumstances, we can understand why those mamas do not want the prizes of matrimony slip through their fingers. As Sisi said about her early marriage "One does not sent the Emperor of Austria packing." Her daughter-in-law Stephanie also married early, and was granted a delay due to the fact that her menstrual cycle had not began yet. Missy, VM & Sandra all married early and well in status & position.  It was due to VM's own character that she wanted a divorce. ven Mary Loo would be happy to remain "married" in Anhalt if not for the scandal. It was worth noting that she considered herself married for the rest of her life. So I guess VM was too immature to become a fully developed mother for little Ella, but there is no doubt that she loved her.

[Hikari]

Photos of little Elisabeth from her last photoshoot in November 1903.
She is wearing a Romanian traditional costume given by her aunt Maria of Romania.
Photos by Alfred Brand, Sinaia-Ploesci
Photos found at the hessian archive website

[edubs31]

Thanks for sharing these Hikari. Elisabeth was a beautiful spirit. A mentor in some ways to OTMA one could say.

She died on November 16, 1903 so is it possible these photos were taken at the very beginning of her visit, with papa Ernst, to the imperial lodge in Skierniewice, Poland?

I don't know exactly when the first arrived at the lodge nor do I know the exact date she became ill. But I believe she was laid up in bed for a few days before passing. These photos would have needed to be taken in a pretty tight window if so, and if they were taken in Poland is it possible that we might find some uncovered photos of OTMA from the same photo shoot?

[Eric_Lowe]

I wonder if there were letters between the girls...

[Hikari]

I'm not sure about the date...when I found it on the Hesse archive it said that the photos were taken in November 1903.
But it's possible that they made a mistake and wrote November instead of October or September

[edubs31]

I'm not sure about the date...when I found it on the Hesse archive it said that the photos were taken in November 1903.
But it's possible that they made a mistake and wrote November instead of October or September

Yes, always a possibility of that. Would just be really nice to know for sure is all. Something tells me they were probably taken before her and her father's trip to the lodge in Poland. Otherwise it seems likely that we'd have some pictures of OTMA during this photo shoot.

[Hikari]

I think so too. But I'm pretty sure there are candid photos of Elisabeth and OTMA in November 1903 when they were in Poland if only we could check the 1903 album in the russian archive to see if they exist!
Here's another beautiful photo of Elisabeth by Alfred Brand in 1903:

From the Hessian Archive

[Cambria_Coheed]

Beautiful new pictures! Especially loved the photo shoot where she is in Romanian costume

[grandduchessella]

I'm not sure about the date...when I found it on the Hesse archive it said that the photos were taken in November 1903.
But it's possible that they made a mistake and wrote November instead of October or September

Yes, always a possibility of that. Would just be really nice to know for sure is all. Something tells me they were probably taken before her and her father's trip to the lodge in Poland. Otherwise it seems likely that we'd have some pictures of OTMA during this photo shoot.

Didn't the family travel straight on from Andrew & Alice's wedding in Darmstadt to the hunting lodge? The wedding was in October and OTMA were present then as well.