Why were they sent to Yekaterinburg?

[TsarAlexeiII]

I have been unable to find a thread or any information about this, here or elsewhere? According to the movie, Nicholas and Alexandra, the train commanded by Vasili Yakovlev was stopped by a train commanded by Ural Sovietsmen and the family was transferred. If this is true, what exactly happened? Yakovlev said his orders came from Moscow and the guy on the train refused to obey those orders and threatened to kill Yakovlev. Weren't they all Bolsheviks, though? Why didn't the people on the train obey Yakovlev's orders from Moscow.

[thelastimpofrussia]

Checked The Last Days of the Romanovs, by Helen Rapport; couldn't find much. Apparently, Yekaterinburg was extremely anti-tsarist, and in the remoteish Urals, if they somehow managed to escape with out being caught by a lynch mob and/or shot, they would have a horrible time trying to survive in the damp taiga. (forest of pine) also, Nicholas wanted to be sent anywhere but the Urals. In The Romanovs by W. Bruce Lincoln it says "From his many agents in the Urals, Sverdlov had begun to receive disturbing warnings about plots to free Nicholas and this family and spirit them out of Russia, and he ordered Yakovlev to transfer the Romanovs to a more secure location. At the same time, Sverdlov also hoped to protect them from various workers' and soldiers groups who wished to kill them for personal revenge. If Yakovlev succeded in moving them to either Omsk or Ufa, it would be easier keep them out of the vengeful clutches of the Regional Soviet of the Urals. Unfortunately for Nicholas and his family, the Soviets objected so threateningly to Yakovlev's efforts that Sverdlov was obliged to give in and order his reluctant agent to take his charges to Ekaterinburg."

That's a lot of typing!

[Sunny]

This issue is well explained in FOTR (The Fate of the Romanovs) by King and Wilson, in the chapter "A traitor to revokution".
I'll try to summarize for you (hope my english will be understandable to you).
Lenin and his collegue Sverdlov wanted Nicholas to have a trial in Moscow, so sent Jakovlev to fetch him and his family in Tobolsk. They wanted Jakovlev to take them to Moscow for the trial. But the Ural Soviet want to be personally responsible for the Romanovs; the Ural region was the most revolutionary of whole Russia; population was mostly of workers, who wanted to see Nicholas dead, considering him a tyrant. The Ural Soviet feared that in Moscow Lenin would process Nicholas and them let him go abroad in exile; at the contrary, they wanted him dead.
While Jakovlev was going to Tobolsk, and while he was preparing the IF to move, The Ural Soviet exchanged telegrams with Sverdlov, trying to persuade him to let them having the IF in Ekaterinburg. Jakovlev knew nothing about this, and didn't like Avdeev (a member of the ekaterinburg soviet) travelling with him to Tobolsk. He didn't like Ural soviet, he thought (and was right) that they were not able to keep the IF safe. He was sure they wanted them dead.
Jakovlev was meant to go to Moscow, and when  he realized that the Ural Soviet won't let him pass through Ekaterinburg (the railway Tjumen' - Moscow he used to transfer Nicholas, Alix and Maria passed through Ekaterinburg - it was a part of Transiberian), he tried to pass through another railway, the Omsk - Moscow, a longer but safer way. In the meantime the Ural Soviet was still trying to persuade Sverdlov. In the end, the Ural Soviet got it; Sverdlov cabled Jakovlev to go back to Ekaterinburg. Jakovlev did not want at first (for the reasons explained) but he had to obey to Sverdlov. In Ekaterinburg he arguem violently with the heads of the soviet (goloshchokin and Beloborodov) but no way. He was eventually arrested when got off the train; the ural soviet declared he was "a traitor to the Revolution" because he tried to "safe" the Romanovs and sent him in prison. Truth was, he was only following the orders Sverdlov had gave him.
He was later "saved" by Sverdlov himself, but it seems he really became a traitor in late 1918, joing the White cause.

[thelastimpofrussia]

Seems like my post is a little redundant now XD thanks Sunny!

[Sunny]

Oh, it's nothing, i just paraphrased FOTR ^^

[thelastimpofrussia]

True

[blessOTMA]

I think another reason was it was a city of 10,000 and not some remote area...it would be almost impossible to escape from...seems to me .
Like a prison within a prison

[Sunny]

I think another reason was it was a city of 10,000 and not some remote area...it would be almost impossible to escape from...seems to me .
Like a prison within a prison

Yep. And moreover, people there were deeply anti - nicholas, so everyone would confess if he had seen the ex - czar escaping, i think...

[TsarAlexeiII]

Nicholas and Alexandra made this situation very confusing. It appeared as if Yakovlev was following orders from Moscow and the Ural Sovietsmen were hijacking the family from Yakovlev without any approval from Moscow (Lenin and Sverdlov). So basically, both Yakovlev and the Ural Sovietsmen got their orders from Moscow--Yakovlev from Lenin, and the Ural Sovietsmen from Sverdlov--behind the scenes. I initilly thought after seeing that scene, that the people on the train were White Guard, despite their red flags, use of the words "comrade", and saying they from the Ural Soviet. It was very confusing.


Thank you, Talya and Sunny. Thank you all.

[Sunny]

I think that when Massie wrote that book history knew so little about this, that he couldn't do better. Remember that when Massie wrote, the soviet union still existed and most documents were secreted, so the situation was very unclear. Or, at least, i think this could be the reason, because in other places Massie is very precise.

[thelastimpofrussia]

No prob(: The Romanovs by W. Bruce Lincoln was published in 1981, was the CCCR disbanded at that time, or not? (1. I enjoy imperial history only, [but that hasn't stopped me from naming that stupid rooster we have Adolf Gorky] and 2. I wasn't even alive then, so I have no clue...)

[Sunny]

CCCP (or in SSSR in latin alphabet, or URSS in italian) was disbanded in 1991, 2 years after the collapse (?) of Berlin War. I was not born in 1981, but i was both in 1889 (Berlin Wall) and 1991, even if i was so little i recall nothing, but my parents often tell me how shocking these 2 events were.

[thelastimpofrussia]

Sound like when i was a tiny kid, the September 11 attacks on the united states happen, but I remember nothing.

Thanks for the info!

[LisaDavidson]

When Massie wrote Nicholas and Alexandra, it wasn't clear who Yacovlev was or what his politics were. His extreme politeness gave some with the Imperial party the impression he was sympathetic to the IF, which was likely not true. It was only after glasnost that we learned Yacovlev was not his real name and that he was for a time a loyal Bolshevik.

[Sunny]

When Massie wrote Nicholas and Alexandra, it wasn't clear who Yacovlev was or what his politics were. His extreme politeness gave some with the Imperial party the impression he was sympathetic to the IF, which was likely not true. It was only after glasnost that we learned Yacovlev was not his real name and that he was for a time a loyal Bolshevik.

Yes, thanks Lisa to put it down in a better english than mine! Massie had no access to those documents that "popped up" only after glasnost'-