Author Topic: Nicholas II - Early Crushes - plus Mathilde and Alix  (Read 89747 times)

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Offline anna

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Re: Nicholas II - Early Crushes - plus Mathilde and Alix
« Reply #75 on: July 10, 2005, 03:29:37 PM »
I don't think you can speak of real love between Nicky and Toria. Puppy-love yes maybe (just the teens hormons).
They romped around and teased each other on their visits in Denmark- mutual grandparents.
I don't think this was for Alix of any importance to know or to be jealous about. Why should she have to know about all the girls he met in his life.

As to the photo of Laura, I thinks it's Olga A, Maud or Louise, Nicky, Xenia and Toria- identifiable by her big eyelids. I'm not sure.

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Offline grandduchess_42

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Re: Nicholas II - Early Crushes - plus Mathilde and Alix
« Reply #76 on: July 10, 2005, 05:33:09 PM »
did alix even meet toira. im shure she did at least a few times. thanks for the picture. true about all the girls in his life. i'm shure she was just a little bit of jelously? right i mean i know i would be... just a little though ::)
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Offline bookworm857158367

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Re: Nicholas II - Early Crushes - plus Mathilde and Alix
« Reply #77 on: July 10, 2005, 09:50:13 PM »
Quote
did alix even meet toira. im shure she did at least a few times. thanks for the picture. true about all the girls in his life. i'm shure she was just a little bit of jelously? right i mean i know i would be... just a little though ::)



Of course Alix knew Toria, who was also HER first cousin. Alix's mother Alice was Toria's father's sister.

Offline Teddy

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Re: Nicholas II - Early Crushes - plus Mathilde and Alix
« Reply #78 on: July 11, 2005, 01:27:17 PM »
Quote
did alix even meet toira. im shure she did at least a few times. thanks for the picture. true about all the girls in his life. i'm shure she was just a little bit of jelously? right i mean i know i would be... just a little though ::)


Yes they know eachother. There is even a photo of Alexandra, Toria and her mother Queen Alexandra on board of the Standard.

Offline Rijio

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Re: Nicholas II - Early Crushes - plus Mathilde and Alix
« Reply #79 on: July 12, 2005, 07:27:38 AM »
but someone of the rank of Aleksandra mustn't show that kind of feeling,
but as I said reading your post you give the impression that they was in 2005, but they was not women in 1900 mustn't be jealous, there were most of them aware of that but hadn't to say anything about it...

I hope you understand what I said, it's perhaps not very clear  :-[

Offline grandduchess_42

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Re: Nicholas II - Early Crushes - plus Mathilde and Alix
« Reply #80 on: July 12, 2005, 10:12:42 AM »
Quote
but someone of the rank of Aleksandra mustn't show that kind of feeling,
but as I said reading your post you give the impression that they was in 2005, but they was not women in 1900 mustn't be jealous, there were most of them aware of that but hadn't to say anything about it...

I hope you understand what I said, it's perhaps not very clear  :-[


yes but every one has feelings. just because she can't show them, doesn't mean she doesn't have them.
So keep me awake for every moment
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Offline Rijio

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Re: Nicholas II - Early Crushes - plus Mathilde and Alix
« Reply #81 on: July 12, 2005, 11:40:04 AM »
so how can we know her real feelings so?

Offline anna

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Re: Nicholas II - Early Crushes - plus Mathilde and Alix
« Reply #82 on: July 13, 2005, 03:22:33 PM »
GD42 and Rijo,

What we know about historical persons is from their letters and diaries, which are only fragments of their lives. They were very much aware that correspondence and diaries would/could be read by others-- us. And there is something we call a personal life, tho as difficult this may have been.
I fact we can only rely on statements-describtions made by people who personally new them or have written about them. We know people can have a completly different view on one and the same person. So what they really felt or thought we shall never know I guess.
Watch your thoughts, they become words. Watch your words, they become actions.
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Re: Nicholas II - Early Crushes - plus Mathilde and Alix
« Reply #83 on: July 13, 2005, 04:08:15 PM »
We must also remember that this "royal mob" of cousins vacationed together, had godparents among their parents' generation, exchanged holiday gifts, and attended all sorts of family events, both happy and sad, over the decades. Virtually thousands of private letters whizzed back and forth between the Royals over those decades. Like most big families, there were of course tons of little secrets and open secrets.

Toria's friendship with Nicky seems to have lasted until his death. They were hardly furtive about communicating, so there doesn't seem to have been anything to hide, does there? And Alix did not seem to be bothered by Toria in any way whatsoever...she was secure enough in her relationship with her husband to see puppylove for what it was, no threat whatsoever. I have always thought she would have had a much harder time with Mathilde K. in that regard, but she seems to have attended the ballet and been able to handle that much more serious romantic history in her husband's past without a problem because she felt totally secure in her husband's love.

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Nicholas II - Early Crushes - plus Mathilde and Alix
« Reply #84 on: November 02, 2005, 10:56:39 AM »
Nicholas and Mathilde had the kind of  ''iniation'' affair typical among royalty of that time. It was just showing him into the pleasures of manhood which he never indulged himself in after with anyone accept Alexandra. It is known that Alexander III  encouraged things. It was showing him how to have a relationship with a woman so he would be better prepared for a wife. This was common among royalty. It was not a passionate affair, not as if they were soull mates or something. They loved each other, but did not believe it would last for ever, because it could not. In the nature of it, it was a thing of the days of youth passing by. Russian ballerinas knew about such things. They had a fling, and never regarded it as anything more. I am not sure if Nicholas was her first lover, but she was almost certainly his.

The affair was platonic only at first, it coudn't have been later. They were lovers, in the full sense of that word. Why else would Nicholas have confessed this affair to Alexandra before their marriage. If it was not a genuine love affair? If  he loved Mathilde platonically only why confess? But this affair was a very staid one by the standards of Grand Dukes, or of Mathilde herself. Mathilde was a typical Russian ballerina, who was had a unusual life, and a bit of a different personality. She had talent and beauty, of course. But she was always laughing and witty Little K.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by romanov_fan »

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Nicholas II - Early Crushes - plus Mathilde and Alix
« Reply #85 on: November 02, 2005, 10:58:20 AM »
Sorry for above word mistakes or spelling.. typing is not my strong point ;)

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Nicholas II - Early Crushes - plus Mathilde and Alix
« Reply #86 on: November 04, 2005, 10:51:30 AM »
We all know much about Nicholas II; but how much do we know about Princess Victoria ''Toria''? We know she never married, was not regarded as a great beauty; (although I believe all the ''wales girls'' as they were known were actually quite beautiful). We know she was a servant to her mother basically, a old maid who was another one of her mother's ladies in waiting unofficially. So she never had much of a life, she never fulfilled herself in public life, I believe nor in private life. I had not known that she and Nicholas had a crush on each other when they were very young, or that they were friends. It is interesting. These european royal families were all related, and knew rach other very well. No, Alexandra was never jealous of Toria. Does anyone know what Toria's reaction was to the end of the Romanovs? Or to Nicholas II's death. Was not Toria very close to her brother George V? I believe so. Is there a thread on Toria?

Offline CatherineNY

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Re: Nicholas II - Early Crushes - plus Mathilde and Alix
« Reply #87 on: November 06, 2005, 08:00:17 AM »
Princess Victoria had several suitors, according to John  Van Der Kiste in his book, "Edward VII's Children." Van Der Kiste says that Queen Victoria hoped that Prince Adolphus of Teck (Queen Mary's brother) would marry either Princess Victoria or her sister Maud. The most serious suitor for Victoria's hand seems to have been Lord Roseberry, a Liberal Prime Minister who was a widower. Edward VII (then Prince of Wales) turned down Roseberry's suit, says Van Der Kiste, either because of concern that such a marriage would put the Royal Family too close to politics, or because Alexandra wanted to keep one daughter at home. I have read somewhere (not in the Van Der Kiste book) that Victoria talked about this suit in later life and said something like "we would have been so happy", but it is possible that she was referring to some other lost love. Grand Duchess Olga once said of Victoria that "I grew very fond of Uncle Bertie and Aunt Alix, but I felt so very sorry for their daughter, Princess Victoria. Poor Toria was just a glorified maid to her mother! Many a time a talk or game would be broken off by a message from my Aunt Alix, and Toria would run like lightning, often to discover that her mother could not remember why she had sent for her." (quote taken from "The Last Grand Duchess" by Ian Vorres). Some life! At least Victoria was close to her brother, George V, although Queen Mary found her a difficult sister-in-law.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by CatherineNY »

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Nicholas II - Early Crushes - plus Mathilde and Alix
« Reply #88 on: November 08, 2005, 10:01:56 AM »
Thanks for the info on Toria. I think she was refering to Lord Roseberry as her lost love. I had read this before. I believe this man was generally regarded as unsuitable for the reasons you mentioned, and perhaps some others. It is too bad, but before the modern age royalty were very limited in their choices of a partner. Yet for women marrying into royal families, it might be easier to be royal or noble originaly, so you can cope with the pressures of royal life.

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Re: Nicholas II - Early Crushes - plus Mathilde and Alix
« Reply #89 on: November 26, 2005, 03:17:16 AM »
Apparently poor Toria Wales and her sisters were called "their royal shynesses" by some people..


IMO Toria grew up to be pretty--she just inherited the good old Hanoverian eyes. :-/