Author Topic: Countess Bertha Kinsky,Baroness von Suttner  (Read 28233 times)

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Offline Marc

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Countess Bertha Kinsky,Baroness von Suttner
« on: March 04, 2009, 10:25:41 PM »
Bertha Sophie Felicitas...born Countess Kinsky von Wchinitz und Tettau to Count Franz Josef Kinsky and Sophie Wilhelmine von Koerner,married to Baron Arthur von Suttner,Nobel prize winner for peace in 1905...lived from 1843-1914.

Apart from sources of wikipedia what was her story?Life?Relations with other Kinsky cousins?

Rani

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Re: Countess Bertha Kinsky,Baroness von Suttner
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2009, 02:57:54 PM »
I saw a documentation about her. The Georgia episode is very interesting. And of course the lovestory with Arthur.

« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 03:01:47 PM by Rani »

Offline Marc

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Re: Countess Bertha Kinsky,Baroness von Suttner
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2009, 08:45:26 PM »
I found out some interesting stuff while googling...

After her father died her guardian was her father's best friend Landgraf Friedrich Michael von Fürstenberg-Weitra......She used to spend time with her cousin Count Christian Kinsky and his wife Therese,Countess Wrbna at castle Matzen...Apart from that she had companion in her mother's niece Elvira whose father also died and her guardian was again her father's best friend Count Huyn...

She with her cousin had a first "crush" on Friedrich von Hadeln...Before her marriage Countess Berha Kinsky had several options for marriage...When she was 13 she was proposed by Prince Philipp zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg but her mother declined due to her young age...After that she was engaged to an old milllionair but couldn't do it and returned his gifts and broke off her engagement...after that she was proposed by an elderly Napolitanian Prince who was chief steward of Queen Maria of Naples,but she declined due to his age(he already had twenty-five-year-old son)...Countess Bertha was a close friend of Princess Ekaterina Dadiani,Princess of Mingrelia and through her she met her cousin Prince Heraclius Bagration,son of the last King of Georgia,but that became more or less just a summer crush and after he was engaged with Princess Tamara Chavchavadze...after that she was proposed by a fraud,false millionair...She was finally happy when she met her REAL PRINCE and they became engaged...His name was Prince Adolf zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein...they shared passion for music and he had some arrangements in New York...they postponed their wedding after his trip,but while traveling to US Prince Adolf died and was burried at sea...

Until then,she really didn't have luck a first...When young she was relatively well off due to her guardian and her mother who didn't have to spend her own money and traveled from castle to castle...After Landgraves death her mother lost some of her von Körner possesions in Italy because Austria lost Milan...after that they bought a villa near Vienna and lived there...they spent almost all their money traveling around Europe and trying to purchase an opera career for Bertha(her mother's dream of youth)...She was in very awkward situation...having been a daughter of a Imperial Lieutenant Field-Marshal and Actual Chamberlain,Count Franz Joseph Kinsky von Wchinitz und Tettau(of an ancient family) and a mere noble Sophie Wilhelmine von Körner,daughter of Herr Joseph von Körner,Captain of Cavalry in the Royal and Imperial Army and Anna von Hahn,she didn't have 16 great-great-grandparents noble enough which would make her presented at court and enter Vienna ''societe''...cream de la cream...so,she was in some kind of a ''Teck'' situation,had just the family name of Kinsky,but not rich...and therefore she was just left with her mother who had her inalienable widow's portion left, and enough for Bertha to provide a suitable trousseau for her eventual marriage...her mother could live on her widow's portion, but she did not want to be a burden upon her and remain inactive at home in narrow circumstances...That's why she decided to use her skills in German,English,French,Italian and music and become a instructor and companion to four grown-up daughters in the baronial house of Suttner...she has previously known the rich family from her Baden-Baden summer trips!

And there she met Baron Arthur Gundakar von Suttner...

beladona

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Re: Countess Bertha Kinsky,Baroness von Suttner
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2009, 07:19:45 AM »
There is a very good biography of Bertha from Brigitte Hamann...
And do not forget, that Berta was not only child, she had older brother, with same name as her future husband - Arthur...:)

Offline Marc

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Re: Countess Bertha Kinsky,Baroness von Suttner
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2009, 08:36:59 AM »
Yes,true,but so far from what I have read she mentioned him just once or twice...in the context that her mother was happy he didn't rejoin the army because of his health...

From what I have read so far and that is about her early life,it seems that he was quite interesting...As a young girl she had the chance to meet some important people like Emperor Alexander II of Russia,famous Countess Marie Dubsky,Baroness von Ebner-Eschenbach,Emperor Wilhelm I(at that time King) of Germany,correspond with him and exchange pictures they took together...

beladona

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Re: Countess Bertha Kinsky,Baroness von Suttner
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2009, 04:46:58 PM »
I have read about him that he had very curious character and at the end of his life he lived completely alone and faraway from any society...Are there any pictures of Berta´s parents? Or her beloved husband Arthur?

Offline Marc

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Re: Countess Bertha Kinsky,Baroness von Suttner
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2009, 08:29:13 PM »
Sorry,are you talking about Bertha's husband or her brother?

beladona

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Re: Countess Bertha Kinsky,Baroness von Suttner
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2009, 03:47:53 PM »
I meant her brother :)

Offline Marc

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Re: Countess Bertha Kinsky,Baroness von Suttner
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2009, 10:31:55 PM »
I have read half of her biography since I started this thread knowing nothing about her and she just so far mentioned her brother two or 3 times in the book...while she informed us a great deal about her mother,cousins,friends etc.,very strange...

Rani

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Re: Countess Bertha Kinsky,Baroness von Suttner
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2009, 08:41:13 AM »
Komtesse Bertha Kinsky in Bad Homburg



One of her three fiancés: Baron Gustav Heine-Geldern



The other one: Prinz Adolf zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein



Berthas husband Baron Arthur von Suttner



Bertha in the Georgian Republic


Offline Marc

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Re: Countess Bertha Kinsky,Baroness von Suttner
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2009, 02:45:35 PM »
Those picture are indeed great...thank you Rani...I always though she had rather interesting life.Her position in noble circles was similar to Queen Mary's in royal...she was tainted by her mother's untitled nobility blood and she writes about that in her biography when she couldn't be presented in the Vienna court!

Rani

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Re: Countess Bertha Kinsky,Baroness von Suttner
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2009, 02:45:27 PM »

Offline Marc

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Re: Countess Bertha Kinsky,Baroness von Suttner
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2009, 09:09:58 PM »
She was very pretty in this portrait...are there any in color?


Offline Marc

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Re: Countess Bertha Kinsky,Baroness von Suttner
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2010, 01:03:15 PM »
One more photo of young Bertha Kinsky: