Personal Attributes of Nicholas II

[Louise]

Also there are pictures of Nicholas standing in the water, washing and there are no visible tatoos.

Louise

[grandduchessella]

I thought I read that on his long trip of Asia while Tsarevich (where the Otsu attack occured) that he did go to a tattoo parlor with his cousin George of Greece.  George V has been written of having his arms heavily tattooed from his time as a sailor (and I don't think I've ever seen a picture of him without his shirt). Rumors even started that he and his elder brother had their noses tattooed while on the Bacchante, prompting Queen Alexandra to chastise him for having "his impudent snout" tattooed and "wouldn't people laugh at him". Turns out they had some pollen on their noses (forget why) and the press misrepresented it.

[grandduchessella]

There are some photos of Nicky swimming naked.  I wouldn't call him heavily tattooed.

Yeah, based on that famous "naked rear" shot of him swimming, it definitely didn't seem that THAT was where the tattoo might be.  

[anna]

Didn't Nicky had a tattoo on his arm? Left or right don't know.
Anna

[Janet_Ashton]

The Japanese police reports of the 1890-1 Grand Tour remarked that Nicholas and George went to get tattoos - exactly where (on their bodies :-) ) I can't recall, but they were being watched fairly closely, so I have to assume this was true and they were actually seen entering the tattoo parlour - and that the tattooists who gave statements to the police were similiarly telling the truth (I'd be more cynical if they were talking to the press)

Janet

[Janet_Ashton]

If you could recall, I would love to know! I have a book on Nicky's world trip by Uchtomski, but unfortunately, it only covers their stay in Siam and at Saigon.

I'll look out the reports again, but it could take a few days....
Ukhtomskii is quite discreet; he even draws a veil so to speak over the belly dancers and the geishas...:-) (his writings on the former are very lofty and sarcastic, but Nicholas's diary claims that far from disdaining them Ukhtomskii was actually doing "all sorts of things" with them!)

Janet

[grandduchessella]

I was flipping through Peter Kurth's Tsar and right near the infamous naked swimming shot, there's a photo of the Tsar naked from the waste up, washing up it looks like. It's hard to tell whether is a shadow or not, but it looks like there could be a tattoo on his upper forearm (where lots of men got them back then--and now--I think that's where at least one of George V's was which is probably why you never seem his bare arms.).

[Pravoslavnaya]

This intrigues me -- when I was first preparing for conversion I read that according to the tradition of the Orthodox Church tattoos are forbidden.

[Robert_Hall]

Good point. I had forgotten all about that. I think it was/is [?] considered a sort of "desecration" of the human body, but more frowned upon than outright condemed.
I vaguely remember something the same in the Catholic tradition as well.
The again, sailors traditions are pretty strong as well...
Cheers,
Robert

[grandduchessella]

Hmm, that's interesting. I didn't know it was once forbidden by the Catholic Church then (though not now). Sailor's traditions are pretty strong (witness all those crusty WW2 guys with their "Mama" and anchor tattoos--some of them had to be Orthodox or Catholic   ). There's an Asian tradition (I believe) of henna tattoos and other non-permanent ones used for decoration but not meant to last--maybe Nicky got one of those?

[Robert_Hall]

Could be a temporary tatoo couldn't it?
I will not swear by the Catholic taboo. If it was, it was just a "minor" sin or whatever.
Robert

[katieann]

No big deal about Nicky swimming naked; he wouldn't have done so if ladies had been present.  I remember seeing a photo of a nude Alexei being rinsed-off (via a bucket!) by Derevenko.  Poor lamb was shivering like mad so I don't think the water around Finland can be that warm even in summer.  Wonder if Nicky took that photo?

Queen Victoria and Prince Albert frequently gave each other statues and paintings of nude subjects (many hung at Osborne House on the Isle of Wight and are some are still there), but Victoria insisted that her bath and toilet be hidden behind doors and covered when not in use.  Definitely one for Freud!

[Janet_W.]

Perhaps QV felt this way: Intimacy with one's partner . . . no prob! But, with regards to anything the servants must take care of . . . keep it discreet!

And from what I've read about Alexandra, I think she was of a similar mindset. She and Nicholas are usually so restrained in their photos,* but we know that Nicholas and Alexandra were very passionate in private.

And with regards to that famous "bare bottom" photo . . . I've always wondered if "the imp" didn't happen to take that photo. It was found in the OTMA scrapbooks, after all, and I think Anastasia--far more than any of her older sisters--would have been just the one to have been siddling around the Standart, waiting for her opportunity!




* The one exception being that very funny photo of the two of them kissing, with Xenia and Sandro kissing nearby, and Olga A. standing between them with a goofy expression on her face!

[Sarai_Porretta]

Perhaps QV felt this way: Intimacy with one's partner . . . no prob! But, with regards to anything the servants must take care of . . . keep it discreet! And from what I've read about Alexandra, I think she was of a similar mindset.

With regards to Alexandra's modesty, this reminds me of readings stating that she, unlike many ladies of her position, actually dressed herself after bathing instead of having her maids dress her; thus no maids ever saw her nude. I can't help but agree with her in this preference and admire her for preserving her privacy and modesty. I know I would have done the same given the choice had I been a high-ranking lady at the time.

[katieann]

Sarai - like you, NOBODY would see me nude!  If I had a personal maid I too would be like Alix.  I'd bathe and dress before being seen by her.  I'm not excessively modest or a prude - but I don't have a great figure and I'm not having anyone eyeing up and criticising MY cellulite!

Helen - Feng Shui is a nice idea!  But the reason the bath and lavatory were covered was more to do with the sometimes smelly drains than positive energy leeching away.

In some houses in Britain it was considered proper to cover the legs of the piano as they were considered to be too 'feminine' and not to be gazed on.  It might cause lecherous feelings ....!

And, just as I think about Osborne House, it makes me wonder if Alexandra had an input into the design of the new Livadia Palace - the Italian villa style of both buildings are pretty remarkable, and quite similar in certain respects.  Just a thought.