Author Topic: Olga's crushes: Pavel Voronov, Dmitri Shakh-Bagov, Nikolai, N.P., AKSH, dear S, etc.  (Read 188853 times)

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Offline blessOTMA

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Sorry,this is kind of off topic...but in Olga's 1913 diary,what does she mean by ''mama's heart is #1(#2)''?
I've never seen that explained anywhere, either. My best guess is it's some sort of family code related to Alexandra's heart trouble. Perhaps it indicates the level of her discomfort? Alexandra believed she suffered from an enlarged heart, so maybe it was an informal measure of how enlarged her heart felt on any given day.

This comment is a bit tardy, but yes, such references occur often in the Imperial family's letters. Even Dr. E. Botkin used it at times too. The archivists at GARF told me that so far no one has determined the scale represented by these numbers. So we don't know what level of illness is represented by these references.
I have been reading Olga's  1913 diary again and  during this reading it seems the higher the number, the worse off AF was, if one goes by what else Olga says when writing the number....but hard to say of course....

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Inok Nikolai

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Rereading "Le Tsarevitch enfants martyr" and those extremly precious and rare Tobolsk's letters Eugenie de Grece published, I found the following short quote. Olga's letter 19 April/ 2 May: "...Kupov wrote. He saw Mitia and Boris in Petrograd. They sent us their grettings". Boris is probably Boris Rastopulo, he was often mentionned with Mitia, as an ancient wounded and Mitia's friends in the diairies. So they both were in Petersburg at the beginning of april 1918 (or in March? The letters came slowly).
A few days later, the 25.04/8.05 Tatiana wrote: "I had a letter of Boris R., he sent his congratulations and best wishes for the feast (Easter). He his in Moscow with his sister and stupidly forgot to give his adress". Was Mitia with him? Did he join the beggining "white" army? I do not know.

I believe that the surname is written with a "v", not an "s": Ravtopulo [Равтопуло, or sometimes Рафтопуло].

Boris Vladimirovich Ravtopulo: 1888–1929.
He was a member of the same regiment as D. A. Shakh-Bagov.
He died on June 24, 1929, in Constantinople.
He is listed among the White Army forces at Gallipoli:
http://www.fund-kutepov.narod.ru/doom.htm
инок Николай

Offline Kalafrana

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I can only read Cyrillic script at a very basic level, but there was clearly a very high attrition rate among the White Russians who reached Gallipoli, particularly in the period 1920-22. Was there an epidemic of some kind?

Ann

Offline Inok Nikolai

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I can only read Cyrillic script at a very basic level, but there was clearly a very high attrition rate among the White Russians who reached Gallipoli, particularly in the period 1920-22. Was there an epidemic of some kind?

Ann

Well, the living conditions there in the old barracks were primative, especially during the harsh winters.

(Of course, when non-Russians hear "Gallipoli", most of them think of the famous WW I campaign of 1915.)

In 1920, approx. 150,000 Russian refuges, soldiers and civilians, were evacuated from the Crimea to Constantinople.

After lying at anchor there for two weeks, the soldiers were interned at different places by the French occupational forces.
The regualr army was sent to Gallipoli, while the cossacks were sent to Catalca, near Constantinople, and to the Greek island of Lemnos.

As of Jan. 1921, there were 27,500 Russians living at Gallipoli. In the first month over 250 died.

Grandually the people left, or were sent elsewhere; the last leaving in 1923.

The Russians formed a society of Gallipoli veterans.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Общество_Галлиполийцев

There is a Russian cemetery there, which the Russian government and military have now helped to repair.

********
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallipoli
In 1920 after the defeat of the Russian White army of General Pyotr Wrangel, a significant number of emigre soldiers and their families evacuated to Gallipoli from the Crimea. From there, many went to European countries, such as Yugoslavia, where they found refuge. A stone monument was erected and a special "Gallipoli cross" was created to commemorate the soldiers, who stayed in Gallipoli. The stone monument was destroyed during an earthquake, but in January 2008 reconstruction of the monument had begun with the consent of the Turkish government.
********

This article contains some photos from the 1920s:
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Галлиполийское_сидение

Here is a photo of the original monument erected at the cemetery:
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Файл:Pamyatn.jpg

And here is a miniature copy in the Gallipoli section of the Russian cemetery in Paris:
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Галлиполийский_обелиск

Here are two reports in English on the restoration of the monument at Gallipoli itself:
http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/02/hm2_6_0_61.html
http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2008/5engallipoli2.html
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 01:34:26 PM by Inok Nikolai »
инок Николай

Offline Antonina

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I believe that the surname is written with a "v", not an "s": Ravtopulo [Равтопуло, or sometimes Рафтопуло].

Boris Vladimirovich Ravtopulo: 1888–1929.
He was a member of the same regiment as D. A. Shakh-Bagov.
He died on June 24, 1929, in Constantinople.
He is listed among the White Army forces at Gallipoli:
http://www.fund-kutepov.narod.ru/doom.htm


Be carefull, o. Nikolai: it was Vladimir Vladimirovich Ravtopulo who died in Constantinople (maybe brother?).
Boris Ravtopulo lived in Petrograd and was arrested  11. 04. 1924; after 3 years in Solovki prison camp he lived in Moskow and was arrested for the second time 25/ 08/ 1938, was sentenced to imprisonment for the 5 years. I believe he died in USSR.
http://lists.memo.ru/d27/f419.htm

The same fate overtook another Shakh-Bagov's friend who served in the same regiment and was one of Olga's and Tatiana's favorite patients, Sergey Nikolaevich Melik-Adamov: he lived in Moskow and Arkhangelsk and was arrested twice...
http://lists.memo.ru/d22/f242.htm
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Offline Inok Nikolai

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Be carefull, o. Nikolai: it was Vladimir Vladimirovich Ravtopulo who died in Constantinople (maybe brother?).
Boris Ravtopulo lived in Petrograd and was arrested  11. 04. 1924; after 3 years in Solovki prison camp he lived in Moskow and was arrested for the second time 25/ 08/ 1938, was sentenced to imprisonment for the 5 years. I believe he died in USSR.
http://lists.memo.ru/d27/f419.htm

The same fate overtook another Shakh-Bagov's friend who served in the same regiment and was one of Olga's and Tatiana's favorite patients, Sergey Nikolaevich Melik-Adamov: he lived in Moskow and Arkhangelsk and was arrested twice...
http://lists.memo.ru/d22/f242.htm

Yes, my mistake. Thank you for catchting it and bringing it to our attention.

And perhaps the moderator will want to move the whole entry on Gallipoli to a more pertinent thread on the White Army, etc.
инок Николай

Offline Antonina

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o. Nikolai - since we began to discuss Boris Ravopulo here, welcome to a new thread about him, it may be interesting for you))
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=17281.0
And just for fun... Here forum members were guessing for years about whom would Olga's Mitia be and how to identify him on photos, but in 1995 in "Komsomolskaya pravda" there was an article about their romance!

There is nothing new in it now, but there is a very strange list of Olga's crushes: N.P. Sablin; Aleksandr Konstantinovich Shvedov, or Shurik, or AKSH; Pavel Alexandrovich Molokhovets, or "Sunny"; and then Shakhbagov. So, the autor thought Olga's "dear S" was Molokhovets!
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Offline Sunny

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o. Nikolai - since we began to discuss Boris Ravopulo here, welcome to a new thread about him, it may be interesting for you))
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=17281.0
And just for fun... Here forum members were guessing for years about whom would Olga's Mitia be and how to identify him on photos, but in 1995 in "Komsomolskaya pravda" there was an article about their romance!

There is nothing new in it now, but there is a very strange list of Olga's crushes: N.P. Sablin; Aleksandr Konstantinovich Shvedov, or Shurik, or AKSH; Pavel Alexandrovich Molokhovets, or "Sunny"; and then Shakhbagov. So, the autor thought Olga's "dear S" was Molokhovets!

It's really interesting that russian newspapers dedicate space to this! I thought we were the only "fouls" (tenderly speaking of course!) quibbling about ON's crushes!
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Offline Kalafrana

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I never thought to see anything about Olga's romances in Pravda!!

Ann

Offline blessOTMA

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I never thought to see anything about Olga's romances in Pravda!!
Ann
lol

that 2nd photo is new to me and I'd love to see a better copy!

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Kalafrana

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For the younger generation, before the Berlin Wall came down Pravda was the official Soviet government newspaper, and full of earnest news with a Communist slant. There was also the official news agency, Tass, whose announcements were always behind what was known in the west about the deaths of Soviet leader etc.

Ann



Offline Antonina

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Sunny and Kalafrana, I was very surprised, too. "Pravda" and "Komsomolskaya pravda" are different newspapers, the second one in 1990s was becoming very "yellow" and of course it wasn't already communist. My parents used to buy it in 1995)))) Unfortunately I was too little to read newspapers and wasn't mad on Romanovs yet!
blessOTMA, oh is it really rare? Well, so bad quality... Only that I have.

It is signed: "Here Olga is on "Standart" yacht with one of the officers".
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Offline Sarushka

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Forgive me for straying briefly off-topic:
That blouse Olga's wearing with the little checked pattern below the bosom -- I don't recall ever seeing that on Olga or Tatiana, only the Little Pair during WWI. I wonder if they were wartime hand-me-downs to Maria and Anastasia?

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Offline blessOTMA

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Forgive me for straying briefly off-topic:
That blouse Olga's wearing with the little checked pattern below the bosom -- I don't recall ever seeing that on Olga or Tatiana, only the Little Pair during WWI. I wonder if they were wartime hand-me-downs to Maria and Anastasia?



Excellent catch  Sarushka  .... The Olga and officer photo  has to be 1914 because A: it's on the Standart and B: Olga looks very grown up

and Antonina thanks for the bigger  photo! It's new to me and I'm happy to have it in any shape =)

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Lady Macduff

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This is the first I'm hearing of Olga having a crush on Sablin. Wasn't he much older than she was?
We are sitting together as usual, but you are missing from the room. - AN