Depression/Melancholy/Nervous breakdown during WWI

[Janet Whitcomb]

I think we're getting closer and closer to what these young women were all about. As Bookworm pointed out, they were more than just their standard descriptions. The more we find out about Olga, Tatiana, Marie and Anastasia, the more each one continues to surprise and delight us!

And I also agree with Melissa K. re: Alix and her sense of duty. A bit exasperating and perhaps even over-the-top at times, but you can't help but admire a woman who wanted her children to understand that Life isn't always all about me-me-me.  Princess Diana prodded William and Harry into a similar type of awareness. Kudos to the moms who foster a sense of social responsibility!  

[bookworm8571]

With great power comes great responsibility. It's admirable that she wanted her daughters to learn duty and to contribute to the war effort. But I remember reading that some of the Russian soldiers who were taken to their hospitals were thoroughly unnerved by having the Tsarina and her daughters serve as their nurses. They didn't really appreciate it. Their status got in the way of what they were trying to do, unfortunately.

There's an interesting site with memoirs by, I think, one of the soldiers and Alexandra's Lilli Dehn, where Olga and Tatiana are contrasted. Olga's "passionate nature" sometimes led her to shout and lose her temper with people. All in all, a volatile temperament!

Tatiana, on the other hand, didn't see the point in shouting and had decided that she could get her way more easily by being low key and charming. Lilli Dehn said Tatiana was actually quite shy, like her mother, and people mistakenly thought she was haughty. She had  romantic dreams. This description is a pretty one: "Tall, excessively thin, with dark chestnut hair and deep blue eyes" and a "perfect rose maiden." I've always liked the latter description of Tatiana.

[Janet Whitcomb]

Yes, I've read comments about the nursing effectiveness (or lack thereoff) of Alexandra and her eldest daughters. Other royals throughout Europe were also affiliated with hospitals, the Red Cross, etc., and some of them were nursing as well, but it seems that Alexandra's involvement and dedication were strongest of all.

A scene from the film of Nicholas and Alexandra does capture the feeling of bafflement/resentment of those who were being nursed by their own soverigns. Though I do think the movie confuses the issue a bit by showing Alexandra, Olga and Tatiana nursing non-officers; in actuality they nursed officers, who were less likely than the average soldier to be upset or even hostile at being tended by their Tsarina and her daughters.

I've read varying opinions of Alexandra and her nursing. In the end I have to say, "Well, she considered herself a practical woman, she liked assisting people, she probably inherited her mother's talent for nursing, and when wearing the nursing habit she could be a little less shy and (so she thought, at least) a lot more helpful."

I'd love to access that site you've referenced!  I have read Lili Dehn's memoirs and yes, she does appear to express a preference for Tatiana.  I'm not surprised; Tatiana seems to have been far less impulsive and very self-contained. But, as someone else mentioned, she too had her vulnerable side: Her father mentions that Tatiana cried a great deal upon witnessing the assassination of Stolypin, but he does not say the same of Olga. So sometimes Olga could show reserves of restraint, and sometimes Tatiana could [understandably] give in to her emotions!

[Janet Whitcomb]

It should be mentioned that at one point in her correspondence to Nicholas, Alexandra complains collectively about OTMA, saying--in essence, as I don't have the exact quote at hand--that her daughers laugh about the "old ways" and do not understand/respect her expectations.

Of course, this has been and continues to be a typical complaint from the moms of teenage girls!

[NAAOTMA]

Yes, I too remember that Alix said that about OTMA. And it rings true. My lovely youngest came home with a nose stud last week. I wish she had sat on a table instead! I am sure that Nicholas and Alexandra had their hands full with five active, bright and energetic children growing up in a challenging time and place. And I always think of their private quarters as being happily messy, inspite of all the servants. And mothers and daughters do cross eachother, it just goes with the territory! Melissa K.

[Sarai_Porretta]

This description is a pretty one: "Tall, excessively thin, with dark chestnut hair and deep blue eyes" and a "perfect rose maiden." I've always liked the latter description of Tatiana.

For those looking for this quote, it can be found in Lili Dehn's online book on the AP site, under this link:
http://www.alexanderpalace.org/realtsaritsa/1chap4.html

It is in a paragraph where Lili is describing Tatiana. You can just type Tatiana in the Find feature under the Edit menu to find it easier.

[bookworm8571]

Here's a link to a site I found with biographies of the five children and some pictures I've never seen before. This particular link is to Tatiana's bio, but there are links at the bottom of the page to the other five. The picture of Tatiana flirting with the soldiers is particularly poignant. What a pretty young teenager and how smitten the young soldier looks in that picture! Poor kids:

www.suite101.com/article.cfm/16444/94190

[Sarai_Porretta]

Here's a link to a site I found with biographies of the five children and some pictures I've never seen before. This particular link is to Tatiana's bio, but there are links at the bottom of the page to the other five. The picture of Tatiana flirting with the soldiers is particularly poignant. What a pretty young teenager and how smitten the young soldier looks in that picture! Poor kids: www.suite101.com/article.cfm/16444/94190

I have seen these sites before and I really enjoy them. They are beautifully put together, both the text and the lovely pictures they show for all of the children!

[BobAtchison]

Once when I met Vladimir Soloviev, the Attorney General of Russia and the head of the committee on the investigation of the remains he showed me the Sokolov dossier that Stalin had - I have mentioned that meeting before.  We had a long talk about what he had found in his research through unpublished materials.  I asked him if he could tell me somethings he had learned about the members of the family that surprized him.  One thing he told me was the story of the small gun Olga carried.  He said, if I remember correctly but this could be wrong, she had it in her boot and she had been given the gun by her father.  He said Koblynski begged Olga to give it to him in Tobolsk. Later I found this in writing - but I haven't been able to relocate it.

Bob

[Sarai_Porretta]

It should be mentioned that at one point in her correspondence to Nicholas, Alexandra complains collectively about OTMA, saying--in essence, as I don't have the exact quote at hand--that her daughers laugh about the "old ways" and do not understand/respect her expectations.

Here is the exact quote, from a letter from Alix to Nicholas dated March 13, 1916 (this can be found in The Romanovs: Love, Power, and Tragedy, pg. 124):

"The children with all their love still have quite other ideas and rarely understand my way of looking at things, the smallest even - they are always right and when I say how I was brought up and how one must be, they can't understand, find it dull. Only when quietly speak with Tatiana she grasps it. Olga is always most unamiable about every proposition, though may end by doing what I wish. And when I am severe - sulks me."

As others have mentioned here, these words ring just as true for mothers and their children today.

[Janet Whitcomb]

Thank you, Sarai!  

[IlyaBorisovich]

Can anyone direct me to the reference in the Time Machine to Olga's breaking of the windows on the bridge, or tell me when it occurred?  Thanks.

Ilya

[Almedingen]

It is in the letters written by Grand Duchess Marie.

[IlyaBorisovich]

I've been reading through this thread and just wanted to ask Janet Whitcomb if you ever found that reference to Olga's getting sick in the linen closet while nursing, or if anyone else can tell me when this event occured.  Thanks.

Ilya

[Janet_W.]

Hi Ilya!

I tried to send you a private e-mail as well, but somehow it didn't work.

Since that post about the towel vomiting, I've been looking for it as time permits, and especially when I was researching an article about Olga. But as yet I haven't found it . . . VERY frustrating, because I know I saw it--as mentioned, my thought was, "Wow, just like what I read in GWTW!"--but I'm now wondering if I read it in a borrowed library book, rather than one of my own books.

It has been difficult to put aside time for a systemic search. But when I find the reference, I'll be sure to post my findings ASAP! (And will feel very proud of myself for finding it, too!)

The situation of Olga vomiting into a towel does fit, in terms of her personality, sensibilities, etc. But obviously it is always best to have a verifiable source, especially when writing nonfiction. For that reason, I did not include the towel vomiting episode in my article about Olga.  In fiction, however, I would probably go ahead, simply because it was so much in character and not at all uncommon among nursing novices.

By the way, I'll remember who to specifically contact with the found info--"Ilya" is one of my favorite names!

Janet