Depression/Melancholy/Nervous breakdown during WWI

[Janet_W.]

Well, I think the phrase "impetuous teenaged girl" fits our Ms. Olga very well!

[matushka]

Impetous teanaged girl is very well said, Janet! At the same time, I think we don't have to go too far. Olga had evidently her own opinions, she was impetous, unbalanced, more or less free-minded. But witnesses told us also about her sweetness, her luminous, delicate and shy feminity. Letters told also that Olga had also a traditionnal way of thinking.
I feel also that her relative conflict with her mother has two reasons we do not yet spoke about. First - as I think- Olga Nikolaevna had a lot of her mother, she was as Alexandra Feodorovna was a secret, decided, impetuous, loving and passionate young woman. They have more in common as we read it too often and the fact Olga seems to have prefer her father do not tell she was like him... Second, and it is only my modest guess, Olga possibly felt that something will happen, that things are not going in the right direction (see her reflections about Rasputin's death, Alexandra's letters...), she possibly felt the nefaste influence of some forces and of her mother. This feeling might have been very confuse, without expression, but it is a possible scenario. After the revolution, Olga became closer to her mother, her letters to her from Tobolsk, when AF was in Ekaterinburg are plenty of love (see Eugenie de Grece's book). An other feeling appears after the Revolution, that is clear to me.
Of course, it is only my speculation, and perhaps a ridiculous one!!
It is out of thema, but I would like to thank you all, Janet, Elisabeth, Sarushka, Georgy and all the others. In a few weeks I think we came to a really deaper knowledge and comprehension of Olga Nikolaevna and I am so glad of that. I hope that with common efforts we will come one day to the same results for Tatiana and the little pair! It is a pity there is not really profound topics in their sections!

[Janet_W.]

And thank you, Matushka, for the information and insights that you have brought to this discussion!

Perhaps because Olga was the eldest of the children, it seems there's more information about her to be accessed. But I also think it has to do with Olga's personality; she tended to be less circumspect and far more expressive than Tatiana, who for me remains something of an enigma. And then there's "The Little Pair" who were too young to have been considered for the marriage market and too young to nurse and participate in committee work as did their older sisters; therefore even fewer impressions exist regarding Marie and Anastasia. As Robert Massie pointed out in the book that, for many of us, started it all, due to the brevity of their lives and the passage of time we do not know terribly much about these four sisters; on the other hand, I think AP posters, along with the help of the FAs, have done and continue to do an excellent job of finding the imformation which is out there!  

[Romanov_fan]

Yes, I can see why Olga's personality had something in common with the flappers. And we ought not to loose sight of her different qualities too. Much can be said about the Grand Duchesses if we choose to say it, and I have learned alot about them on this board. We can say more about Olga, because she was the eldest, was very deep, and just is fascinating. Tatiana is more of an enignma, but I think that alot of good serious stuff has been said about her, but she was more reserved, and those debates seem to have folded on the Tatiana thread. As for the Litlle Pair, you can say some serious things about them if you try.

[blessOTMA]

When I think of Olga Nicolaievna and her response to the war wounds she viewed, I also think about that antidote of the toy shop when she was quite young. Olga and her sister Tatiana were invited to take what they wanted from a toy shop and most of us would have done so without further thought. But not Olga Nicolaievna. She somehow became convinced the wonderful toys already belonged to another little girl and Olga greatly worried how this other little girl would feel when she come back to find her toys taken. Here is someone whose emotional imagination and the resulting empathy is especially keen.

Fast forward some years and Olga is confronting WW1 war wounds right off the train. Now war wounds are terrible things in of themselves and anyone seeing these young men right from the battlefields would be subject to the most gruesome sights. Really only those engaged as doctors or nurses during war can know what is meant by the term " war wounds". The term denotes not just the wounds , but the great, numbing numbers of wounded as well .

But Olga Nicolaievna, with her intelligence, empathy and emotionalism doesn't just see the horrific wounds before her , that would be bad enough. In my opinion, she also sees and feels the larger implications around them. And I believe , she is someone capable of even feeling at times her family is responsible for the terrible suffering she sees as well. Her own parents are in charge after all.

Caring for the injured is like crossing a rope bride over a deep chasm. If you keep your sights on the other side, you should cross safely and give the care. But if you look down and think too much, you'll get in trouble and won't be much use to the very person causing your concern.The practical Tatiana could keep her view on the other side and it seems became quite an excellent  nurse. But it's a small wonder the introspective Olga found herself vomiting in a closet. It says much about her that she didn't simply run off.

Tatiana knew how to ask Alexandra for favors, but only Olga could get her mother to back down. " No more war wounds!" Alexandra says , waving a white flag, when she saw the emotional havoc they were creating in her eldest. Alexandra can be implacable to pleas...but not to emotion. Indeed, as Olga writes herself later to  her mother ,And  no one's grief has ever passed you by." She knew that from experiance.

Olga then moved on to the occupations that, frankly, form a far more effective role for royalty in a hospital. That is, playing music and games with the recovering soldiers, handing out thier medicines, writing letters home for them, ( in at least one case because the young man's right arm had been amputated) and perhaps the most important, listening to them with the kind of care and attention she was known for. These things Olga did and gladly. They fitted her particular gifts and put them to far greater use than placing her in the operation room ever would. 

[Olga Maria]

I fully agree with you. I know almost all people do better if they are put to the field they are especially interested to and that’s the case of each of the Big Pair.

In fact, there is an unpublished memoir of a soldier about the Imperial Family which is sadly in Russian. I have read it partially (because I have hard time understanding the many erroneous translations) and the soldier tells much beautiful things about Olga looking after the wounded. She was very caring to the patients and here’s a story from S. Ofrosimova which I know you’d like to read. The conversation below was posted in Olga’s anecdotes (My translation is very bad, too):

 “ ‘All adored and praised the Grand Duchess Olga’; that’s what the wounded men loved to tell me. One time, a train brought a new batch of wounded. They were, as always, at the station met by the Grand Duchesses. They [Olga & Tatiana] did all that the doctor told them. They even washed the feet of the wounded directly at the station; they cleaned the wounds of dirt and prevented the wounds from being contaminated with [dirty] blood. After a long hard work with the other nurses, the Grand Duchesses transferred the wounded to the hospital. Tired, the Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna sat on the bed of one of the newly transported wounded soldiers. The soldier immediately struck a conversation with her. Olga, as always, didn’t say she was a Grand Duchess.
 “Are you tired?”, asked the soldier.
[Olga] “Yes, a bit tired. It is a good thing to feel tired”.
[Soldier] “What’s good on being tired?”
[Olga] “It means I worked hard throughout the day”.
[Soldier] “It’s not necessary for you to work here. You should go to the front”.
[Olga] “Yes, it’s my dream - to go to the front”.
[Soldier] “What are you waiting for? Go now!”
[Olga] “I like to go there but my father would not allow me because of my health - I am too weak to do so.”
[Soldier] “Is your father stupid? Go there!”
The Grand Duchess laughed hearing that.
[Olga] “No, it’s really something I could not do. We love each other very much”.

[blessOTMA]

Thank you for posting that! Here is another small memoir from a soldier of the girls ,
which I'm sure has been posted on AP , but it seems appropriate here .

It too is translated from Russian via the web, so it's a bit choppy. But much can be learned from it
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Memories of the Hospital
by
Semen Pavlovich Pavlov  

Grand Duchess Olga,  was like the Emperor. The Emperor never visited the hospital: He was at the front. But  the Grand Duchess Olga was like the Emperor, the Princess said, her blue eyes that the emperor was a man of exceptional kindness and gentleness of his heart.
Grand Duchess Olga was a slender girl of medium height, very proportioned and surprisingly feminine. All her movements are soft and elusive grace. And her eyes, quick and timid, and her smile,  fleeting - , - gave an enchanting impression. Especially the eyes. Big-big, blue, turquoise color of the Urals, burning soft radiant shine and pull.

Outstanding Grand Duchess Olga was a sensitive, shy and affectionate. Her very nature - it was kindness. I remember - once I was hard and unpleasant: bandaging,it  was my nightmare. One has  the realization that here, they say, after 20 minutes I will be re bandaged, threw me in a cold sweat : such terrible pain I had to endure. On this day, I'm just stand before the dressing station.

Come Princess Olga.
She looked at my troubled face, and smiling, asked:

- What is it? Heavy?

I frankly told her what was wrong.

Grand Duchess again smiled and said:

- I fix now.

And indeed, since that time I began  morphine , for 3-4 minutes before dressing, as it did before, and when she did not have time to act, and in advance - for 10 minutes.

( so it appears Olga gives him morphine before he goes though the pain of getting new bandages.
I like how she didn't tell him to just buck up and think of Russia ! lol! )

On another occasion, for Lieutenant Sergeyev, Grand Duchess Olga  hand wrote his  letter to relatives back home, because the latter had an amputated right arm. Generally about kindness Grand Duchess Olga in the hospital told wonderful things.

If the Grand Duchess Olga was the embodiment of femininity and particularly kind, the Grand Duchess Tatiana was, undoubtedly, the embodiment of another beginning - courageous, energetic and strong. A little higher than her elder sister, but  elegant and graceful, she had great hardness and strength throughout. Accordingly, her character and her movements, while soft, were clear and sharp. Glance - expressive and bold. She also greeted one  purely masculine, firmly shaking hands and looking straight into the eyes of  whom she  greeted.

In moments of reverie Duchess Tatiana's eyes took a strange expression. They just looked inside, past the talking, somewhere in the distance. Such an expression in her eyes I noticed . If the Grand Duchess Olga predispose to frank and intimate conversation, the Grand Duchess Tatiana evoked the feeling of profound respect. She  was also available, as Princess Olga. But in moments of severe mental  distress , I would  have appealed to her, namely, to Princess Olga, to her  glorious good heart.

 

[blessOTMA]

Memories of the Hospital
by
Semen Pavlovich Pavlov 

part two


Grand Duchess Maria was stouter than  the two older sisters. Above Duchess Olga and slightly below the Duchess Tatiana. About it was difficult to say anything definite. Her character was still forming. She was still a very shy girl, full and dense, with large dark brown eyes. And her face was a real Russian simple, wide, good and  bezhitrostnoe.( ?) During the Revolution, when the royal family were arrested, it can manifest itself as nature is extremely strong, energetic and courageous.

The heir was remarkably similar to his older sister - Princess Olga - tender and pure semi-oval face, such as soft features and the same blue-caressing beautiful eyes

High sisters came to the hospital every day and perform here in the winter from 9 am to 2 pm, and in the spring and summer, in addition, yet arrived in the evening and would often sit up after midnight.

With the arrival of a distinguished person in the hospital began working life - and ligation operation. After her illness Empress rarely participated in these studies. She usually brought with her some work, mostly embroidery. Sit around and especially the seriously wounded, taking her  in conversation, while embroidering. In these embroideries is more pronounced and delicate taste of the Empress: I have rarely seen such a skilled embroiderer. Especially well-colored satin stitch Empress - this was real artistic work.
Sit and do nothing in the hospital - it was the privilege of the Empress. Others worked all.

Grand Duchess Olga took away the morning dressing, passes out  drugs on the wards and the duty that she performed carefully to pedantry. Will government used to cure, smile gently, and said hello, ask how you feel and go away quietly. Looking at her, and my heart was made brighter and cleaner: like  sometimes in a gloomy autumn day when the sky swathed with clouds and the rain all day, you think about a small patch of blue spring sky.

 I was told - before she worked and in the dressing room. But the horrible kind of maimed people strongly shaken her fragile nervous system, and she absolutely refused to work in the dressing room.

Grand Duchess Tatiana Nikolaevna from the very opening of the hospital bezsmenno made bandages and helped Princess VI Gedroitz during  operations. How to resist its tender body form the horrific injuries - do not know. I personally was always strange to see, as with her own nimble and dexterous hands left a bandage on the wound. And she came out clean, tidy and well.

Occasionally lift, used to head, looking intently into her eyes and a smile, asks:

- Does not hurt?
- Not hurt - replied through clenched teeth, and the pain is really hellish.

One Grand Duchess Olga told me that tomorrow they will not be in the hospital , because they will have to visit the infirmary of the Great Palace (Catherine Palace) and that for them there would be very boring. With her inherent soft and shy smile Grand Duchess explained the reasons for the boredom: There its all so strict  and formally, that we have to watch every step, because there we are in the center of attention. We never did not like it and sisters there are important. Only for itself, in our hospital, we feel good and comfortable! In the mouth of the Grand Duchess that sounded very original. Indeed, the High sisters loved their hospital.

This love manifested itself at every step and not in words but in deeds - in every detail of everyday life.

Our wounded officers - recited and sang and played. Since even put some scenes from the operetta "Ivanov Paul. . Usually accompanied by Grand Duchess Olga who ,had a wonderful ear for music. For her, for example, had no trouble to pick up the accompaniment to a completely unfamiliar melodies. Her playing  was fine and noble,its  touch - soft and velvety. I still remember one of the waltz, an old grandfather's waltz - a soft, graceful and delicate as expensive porcelain  toy - a favorite waltz of Grand Duchess Olga. We are often asked  Princess Olga to play us the waltz and somehow the feeling  from her  is always very sad.

Once in the presence of the Grand Duchess Tatiana Nikolaevna we talked about Russian literature, on new directions in it and the fact that nowadays there is no particularly great writers, and that therefore a special pleasure to read old classics. Grand Duchess at the same time said that they have only read Turgenev.

On another occasion, once we started talking about love. Came out it was an accident. Stood spring twilight. The garden was particularly good, and the mood was so beautiful, that by itself the conversation turned to love. Margaret S. Khitrovo, Smolyanka enthusiastic, young and sentimental girl, said something about an ideal love. Lieutenant [omission in the text] Something to her, replied. Caught fire dispute. Finally, to resolve the dispute we  turned to the Grand Duchess Olga, who sat with us and had silently listened to what we said. The  Grand Duchess gravely replied:   I think that love should be sincere and good sense, but without mutual respect, true love is inconceivable. In this regard, Ritka is right.  She said ... and was awfully red.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------At the end of his memoir , Semen Pavlovich Pavlov says he didn't know if he had gotten what they were like across...but he wanted to. Well I think he did a wonderful job.

[Olga Maria]

That’s the memoir I’m talking about, blessOTMA! I hope somebody can translate the whole memoir soon. 
“Grand Duchess Olga was of weaker health and nerves and did not endure for a long time the work in the operating theatre. But, she did not give up the duties in the hospital by working in the wards and along with the other nurses, looked after the patients.”
by Tatiana Botkina

[blessOTMA]

That’s the memoir I’m talking about, blessOTMA! I hope somebody can translate the whole memoir soon. 
“Grand Duchess Olga was of weaker health and nerves and did not endure for a long time the work in the operating theatre. But, she did not give up the duties in the hospital by working in the wards and along with the other nurses, looked after the patients.”
by Tatiana Botkina

There a large amount of memoirs and letters I hope is gathered soon!
I find it hard to believe there's not enough interest to do ...but then I would find that hard to believe being so very interested! lol!

Yes, Olga Nicolaievna removed herself from where she was in the way and not suited, and then she worked very hard and gladly where she could be useful. Her impact was enormous. As soon as she placed it  where it would do the greatest good,  both personally and as a royal, that is, interacting with the recovering soldiers. As this gentleman says...there  many stories of her goodness. Indeed. 

[EmmyLee]

Thank you both for the posted memoirs. Wouldn't it have been wonderful if many more soldiers had written their memories of the Grand Duchesses' work in the hospitals? I think it would make for a fascinating compilation.

I find it so interesting that Olga and Tatiana were able to adjust as well as they did to the conditions in the hospitals. After having been sheltered all those years and then thrown into this gruesome work, the original shock must have been great. Aside from the horrors of the hospital work, it must have been enjoyable to them in other respects, such as interacting with the wounded.

[blessOTMA]

Thank you both for the posted memoirs. Wouldn't it have been wonderful if many more soldiers had written their memories of the Grand Duchesses' work in the hospitals? I think it would make for a fascinating compilation.

I find it so interesting that Olga and Tatiana were able to adjust as well as they did to the conditions in the hospitals. After having been sheltered all those years and then thrown into this gruesome work, the original shock must have been great. Aside from the horrors of the hospital work, it must have been enjoyable to them in other respects, such as interacting with the wounded.

Really from the war on they were constantly adjusting to new and sadly, ever worse, circumstances...and I think did amazingly well though out. But this is a fascinating time in thier lives  with so many unexpected opportunities as well as challenges. Their lives were cut so short, it's something they got to move as adults for a time at least  in this ordinary/ extraordinary world of the hospital. They got to meet people and make the friends with many they never would have met other wise. I love how Valentina Ivanovna Chebotaryova was such a good friend to the girls. She seemed to give them a good deal of emotional support and  how much poorer would our knowledge of  Olga and Tatiana  be if Valentina  had not written of her experiences with " the high sisters"  as Semen Pavlovich Pavlov calls them?  It's my hope as well  that other memoirs will surface!

[Olga Maria]

I hope there are some just around the internet waiting to be discovered.
Aside from being exposed to hospitals, the big pair was also exposed to the field of presiding committees. There, Olga didn’t feel comfortable.
I think Olga didn’t like to be in the operating theatre because she was so sensitive. She doesn’t want to see people cry in pain as it hurts her, too. But, I also think there’s a possibility that she gave the work there up because she didn’t like to see much blood.

[susana]

Jennifer earlier remarked correctly that bipolar symptoms are extreme. If Olga had been manic depressive she would have exhibited extreme highs and lows of mood in a cyclical pattern which would clearly have been recognized. A mild but pervasive form of depression is Dysthymia and is a family illness; I think she inherited Dysthymia and/or had a Major Depression during the terrible upheavals from 1916 on. I recall reading that she stayed in bed, (isolating herself), had no appetite lost weight--I believe this was in a letter from Alexandra to Nicholas. As an aside irritability is one symptom of depression and if stuffed instead of being expressed (sick, controlling mother) can explode into an 'umbrella attack' or bouts of sulking, etc.

Good topic with lots of contributions from fellow 'forum-ers'.

[Sarushka]

I think she inherited Dysthymia and/or had a Major Depression during the terrible upheavals from 1916 on. I recall reading that she stayed in bed, (isolating herself), had no appetite lost weight--I believe this was in a letter from Alexandra to Nicholas.

The girls regularly stayed in bed during the first day of their menstrual periods. For the incident Alexandra mentions in her letter to be significant, it would have to recur and/or last for a number of consecutive days. (IMO)