Depression/Melancholy/Nervous breakdown during WWI

[Sarushka]

Chebotareva's diary would probably give some insight as to whether conditions in the imperial lazaret were typical of other hospitals. Personally, I suspect that the empress and her daughters were shielded from experiencing the same level of stress that nurses elsewhere withstood.

[Sunny]

Chebotareva's diary would probably give some insight as to whether conditions in the imperial lazaret were typical of other hospitals. Personally, I suspect that the empress and her daughters were shielded from experiencing the same level of stress that nurses elsewhere withstood.

I agree with you, but i also think that even if they didn't see the worst, it was anyway enough to stress Olga, since she was so sensitive. Or, at least, i imagine so; i can't bear the sight of blood, expecially mine, and the few times i've been at the Hospital i was so lucky to be in heart surgery ward, whose patients were not so bad; the only time i've been in the Fisrt Aid ward i was terrified seeing how other people were like in there. And i didn't have to nurse them! I was the nursed one!

[blessOTMA]

I think they saw plenty...the worst? Perhaps not..it's interesting I have never seen a head wound in the photos from the lazaret....however I believe most of what we have is from Anya's collection  and right there could be some self censuring going on. One would not put in a photo album the worst...at least Anya doesn't seem to have done so....But just last week I finally saw photos of amputees stumps from the dressing room. They were in a movie/ documentary

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll1Wdob2P1

Pretty gruesome.... and even more awful than the stumps, was the look in the men's faces  and eyes looking into the camera....day in and out... ? Rough Particularly since this was a small hospital compared to others...and they  got to know these men. Nursing is a matter of temperament....rather than of will power seems to me. I do remember Anya said , in her experience, even a Bolshevik  prison could not compare to the horrors of a military hospital 

[Sunny]

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll1Wdob2P1

My pc says the adress iswrong 

My father has only one leg. Te other was amputated 10 years ago. He had an ischaemia but the doctors didn't realize he was loosing his leg. He was sent home but his leg ws gangrenous. It smelled horribly and was completely dark becuse the nervous tissue was already dead. His leg was dead, it was like a corpse, but the doctors said it was ok...at last they had to amputate in a hurry because his blood was already poisoned and he was dying.
I saw how the leg was - and he had no wands outside. I can imagine how a wanded soldier's leg or arm could appear and how terrible it could be for a sensitive girl like Olga was.

[Sarushka]

I think they saw plenty...the worst? Perhaps not.

That's the thing -- it's a matter of perspective. They'd been sheltered their whole lives, always seeing the best of everything. Whatever level of suffering they experienced/witnessed at the lazaret, it must have stood in stark contrast to what they were accustomed to.

Nursing is a matter of temperament....rather than of will power seems to me.

Which begs the question -- was Olga in fact exceptionally 'sensitive,' or did she simply not possess the proper temperament for nursing?

[Alixz]

It probably didn't matter to Alix.  When she decided that her daughters would nurse, they would nurse.  She probably didn't even ask if they were able to endure the stress of hospital life.

It was was Alexandra wanted to do and so she made the decision for everyone, as usual.  Both Olga and Tatiana might have thought, in their innocence, that they wanted to be nurses, but the reality, at least for Olga, turned out to be more that she could take.

[Sunny]

It probably didn't matter to Alix.  When she decided that her daughters would nurse, they would nurse.  She probably didn't even ask if they were able to endure the stress of hospital life.

It was was Alexandra wanted to do and so she made the decision for everyone, as usual.  Both Olga and Tatiana might have thought, in their innocence, that they wanted to be nurses, but the reality, at least for Olga, turned out to be more that she could take.

I perfectly agree with you. I was thinking the same.

Which begs the question -- was Olga in fact exceptionally 'sensitive,' or did she simply not possess the proper temperament for nursing?

I think both of them - she was generous, and she loved chatting with soldiers, but IMHO she wasn't "made to be a nurse" as we say. Hope in english you'll understand.

[Sarushka]

It probably didn't matter to Alix.  When she decided that her daughters would nurse, they would nurse.  She probably didn't even ask if they were able to endure the stress of hospital life.

It was was Alexandra wanted to do and so she made the decision for everyone, as usual.  Both Olga and Tatiana might have thought, in their innocence, that they wanted to be nurses, but the reality, at least for Olga, turned out to be more that she could take.

What makes Alexandra any less innocent of the realities of hospital work than her daughters? To my knowledge she'd had no prior experience to prepare her for such tasks --- unless you count sitting at Aleksei's bedside during his hemophilia attacks. But even that is quite different from assisting in the operating theater.

[RealAnastasia]

It probably didn't matter to Alix.  When she decided that her daughters would nurse, they would nurse.  She probably didn't even ask if they were able to endure the stress of hospital life.

It was was Alexandra wanted to do and so she made the decision for everyone, as usual.  Both Olga and Tatiana might have thought, in their innocence, that they wanted to be nurses, but the reality, at least for Olga, turned out to be more that she could take.

What makes Alexandra any less innocent of the realities of hospital work than her daughters? To my knowledge she'd had no prior experience to prepare her for such tasks --- unless you count sitting at Aleksei's bedside during his hemophilia attacks. But even that is quite different from assisting in the operating theater.

I agree. And I'm amazed when people accuses Alix of not respecting their daughters "innocence" bringing them to work at a hospital in War time. I think she wanted them to have war duties and that they would know what Russian people was suffering. She wanted to show them that Royalty was not only parties and having fun, but duty and suffering as well.  As for their "innocence"...Olga and Tatiana performed their war duties when they were old ennough, as princesses, to marry and bring children to the world. Olga was entirely a woman  when she began to work in a hospital. Of course, even woman and grown up men could have breakdowns, but this is another story...

RealAnastasia.

[RealAnastasia]

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll1Wdob2P1

My pc says the adress iswrong 

My father has only one leg. Te other was amputated 10 years ago. He had an ischaemia but the doctors didn't realize he was loosing his leg. He was sent home but his leg ws gangrenous. It smelled horribly and was completely dark becuse the nervous tissue was already dead. His leg was dead, it was like a corpse, but the doctors said it was ok...at last they had to amputate in a hurry because his blood was already poisoned and he was dying.
I saw how the leg was - and he had no wands outside. I can imagine how a wanded soldier's leg or arm could appear and how terrible it could be for a sensitive girl like Olga was.

This condition is named "gangrene".

RealAnastasia.

[Sunny]

It probably didn't matter to Alix.  When she decided that her daughters would nurse, they would nurse.  She probably didn't even ask if they were able to endure the stress of hospital life.

It was was Alexandra wanted to do and so she made the decision for everyone, as usual.  Both Olga and Tatiana might have thought, in their innocence, that they wanted to be nurses, but the reality, at least for Olga, turned out to be more that she could take.

What makes Alexandra any less innocent of the realities of hospital work than her daughters? To my knowledge she'd had no prior experience to prepare her for such tasks --- unless you count sitting at Aleksei's bedside during his hemophilia attacks. But even that is quite different from assisting in the operating theater.

I think she wasn't doing it on purpose. I mean: she didn't want willigly to decide for her daughters, neither she was really aware of what really was hospital life. I think - but it's IMHO - that Alexandra thought it was her duty, and that every woman who was enugh grown up should do it - she wanted to give her daaghters the same set of values her mother had given her. It wasn't an obligation, not from her POV - she was sure she was giving them the right values in which believe, not a matter of: "You do it because i said so" or something. She thought it was a duty, and she wanted her sisters be dutiful good girls.
I hope i madre me understood. But just IMHO.

[blessOTMA]

opps , sorry about that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll1Wdob2P1E&feature=relmfu

That's the thing -- it's a matter of perspective. They'd been sheltered their whole lives, always seeing the best of everything. Whatever level of suffering they experienced/witnessed at the lazaret, it must have stood in stark contrast to what they were accustomed to.

Indeed. But I  think that would be true of any one from the middle to upper classes. Even today with movies , TV, all our exposure.......real hospitals are a still a shock

Nursing is a matter of temperament....rather than of will power seems to me.
Which begs the question -- was Olga in fact exceptionally 'sensitive,' or did she simply not possess the proper temperament for nursing?

I'm betting on the later...also Olga's  difficulty in hiding her feelings....something TN was pretty good at. But only by becoming ill  would she get out of the dressing room ...just saying " I'm not fitted " would not do.  Nursing, the ill , whether her own children and later at lazaret,  was a connection  Alix had with her mother, Princess Alice. There is a long history  of hospitals and nursing in Alix's background though her mother. While Alix was too young to have experienced the hospital part while her mother was alive, she certainly did experience her mother's nursing when ill. It might have been her strongest memory of Princess Alice. And over seeing somewhat  her mother's medical institutions  was a part of her duties later before marriage ...( though I believe her sister, Victoria, did the bulk of that until Ernie's 's 2nd wife took over finally)  But  it sems Alix's had an  emotional  freedom and sense of sercurity  about her in that sphere . She didn't get her chance in 1904...but ten years later, one could not keep her from the wards. I think she had some difficulty in seeing her daughters as separate from herself ( that they had different ideas about things was a grief and puzzlement to her!) and so of course they came along. But I'm sure they wanted to do their war "bit" as well. Olga didn't quite the hospital, (she worked extensively in the wards) , or her committee , or taking war donations......just the dressing room.

What is so interesting now is that while their nursing  caused comment at the time, nothing gains them respect from the modern Russians like the fact they directly nursed the wounded during the war. Funny how actions taken nearly 100 years ago, still find an impact to today. As one Russian said to me."  Imagine today's celebrities doing that? "

[blessOTMA]

Hey Sunny , I got Princess Alice in my post too! lol!

[Sunny]

Hey Sunny , I got Princess Alice in my post too! lol!

"Romanov minds think alike"... eh? 

opps , sorry about that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll1Wdob2P1E&feature=relmfu

You could be sorry because it's not the right thread for a film, but... THANKS!! It sounds interesting... now i now how to go further with my researches: Gilliard, WEagar, Buxhoeveden, and this pearl you sent me... (so i can imagine them speaking in russian, cause you know, in my head they speak italian -_-")

Sorry for OT Mods.

[Alixz]

I find it odd that when I say that Olga and Tatiana were old enough to know their own minds in some of my postings, I am told that they were innocent and immature. 

Then when I say that in this case, they were following their mother's lead and that they probably didn't have any input or options, I am told that they WERE mature women who wanted to do what was best and were not being pushed about by their mother.

IMHO - They were young women not children.  But they were treated like children.  Alexandra did not understand that they had different needs and motivations than she did and she acted like they were extensions of herself and therefore would do what she would do without question.

I am sure that Alexandra made the decision to go into nursing training and simply assumed that Olga and Tatiana would go with her without question.  It might be that the young women thought it was a great idea, until they actually got into the hospital.  Until then "nursing" by royals meant visiting hospitals and reading and writing letters for the wounded and contacting their families for them.

Until WWI no women of royal blood had actually entered the operating theater or assisted in surgery.  Alexandra and her daughters weren't the only ones in Russia to do so.  Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna did so and so did Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna.  But as has been posted, some women have the inclination to nurse and some do not.

Every time I am in a hospital, for whatever reason, as a patient, I always marvel at the nursing staff and how wonderful and competent they are but I know that I could not do the job they do.  I would be sick.

I doubt that Alexandra ever asked either Olga or Tatiana if they wanted to go into nursing.  IMHO I can see her saying, "This is what we are going to do and it will be wonderful and we will be helping our soldiers."  And because the grand duchesses had simply followed her all of their lives they followed her into this as well.  Had they admitted failure, I believe that Alexandra would have lectured them on duty and obligation instead of being sympathetic and realizing that they might be another way for her daughters to help.