Author Topic: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson  (Read 254526 times)

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Offline Belochka

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #180 on: November 05, 2005, 07:14:10 PM »
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 RA it really makes me feel sad to know that Felix sent that book to you as a gift, and paid the postage on it, only for you to knock it to death on this forum.  That is sort of like looking a gift horse in the mouth.  
..Arleen


Arleen does this mean that if you receive any book as a gift, no matter how flawed it maybe, you are then unable to provide your honest opinion about its contents?

The gift of giving is an entirely separate issue.

RealAnastasia was very honest in her assessment of this publication. We should respect her valuable opinion, which I happen to agree with. I commend her strongly for taking this step.

Have you ever considered that many posters may prefer silence rather than publically expressing their real opinion about FOTR?

Sadly the west is yet to present an accurate portrayal of the I. F.'s final days.
:-/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Belochka »


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Offline Sarushka

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #181 on: November 05, 2005, 07:22:00 PM »
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Sadly the west is yet to present an accurate portrayal of the I. F.'s final days. :-/


It's been a while since I've read this WHOLE thread, but I'm interested to know...

Is there a preponderance of outright inaccuracies presented as truth in this book, or is it more a matter of the use of questionable sources and unsavory interpretations?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by sarahelizabethii »
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Offline Belochka

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #182 on: November 05, 2005, 07:31:56 PM »
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... a matter of the use of questionable sources and unsavory interpretations?


Yes, the two elements quoted above will lead to inaccuracies and only serve to create myths. :-/


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Offline Sarushka

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #183 on: November 05, 2005, 07:34:00 PM »
Thanks for the clarification. Can you recall which particular sources one should be most wary of?

And what, then, is a more accurate portrayal in your opinion?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by sarahelizabethii »
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Offline Ortino

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #184 on: November 05, 2005, 10:55:06 PM »
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Have you ever considered that many posters may prefer silence rather than publically expressing their real opinion about FOTR?


  I shall put myself in this catagory. I would rather not express my full thoughts of FOTR in case Penny or Greg ever decide to come back.

 I agree though that RealAnastasia is entitled to her opinion and the right to express it. There are many times when I buy books or get them as gifts and don't enjoy them. I think her assessment should be considered highly valuable.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Ortino »

Offline griffin

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #185 on: November 05, 2005, 10:57:54 PM »
I have tremendous respect for Greg King so this is hard for me to say but I must say it. I have never been so dissapointed in a book in all of my book reading life. Aside from the gore (which in my opinion was not needed) I found nothing shocking about this book. I have heard it all or read it all elswhere.
And then there is also the notion of Anastasia surviving and the whole Anna Anderson deal. First, I have never believed in AA claim and it will take serious convincing to change my mind, but I am open-minded. I think with this book as many other AA supporters or Anastasia survived supporters that they want to have their cake and eat it too, they question,question,question the DNA tests only to say the overall tests were for real just not the ones on AA.
Does anyone else get me on the last point?
sorry for the long post,I needed to get it out.

Offline Belochka

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #186 on: November 06, 2005, 02:29:10 AM »
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 I would rather not express my full thoughts of FOTR in case Penny or Greg ever decide to come back.  


Respectfully, it would be unreasonable to expect that if any published author is available on this forum, then posters must either remain silent or praise the author's interpretation, simply to maintain a sense of decorum.

Amazon book reviews hardly provide an accurate assessment when friends and associates offer their "valuable" opinion.

Surely in an open forum such as this one it is reasonable to proffer one's genuine concerns which in hindsight should provide valuable information to that author?

If we all "tow the same line" and state that any book assessed on this forum is scholary, because the author might be present, then we are creating our own myth right here.
:-/


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Offline Lucien

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #187 on: November 06, 2005, 03:12:30 AM »
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Respectfully, it would be unreasonable to expect that if any published author is available on this forum, then posters must either remain silent or praise the author's interpretation, simply to maintain a sense of decorum.

Amazon book reviews hardly provide an accurate assessment when friends and associates offer their "valuable" opinion.

Surely in an open forum such as this one it is reasonable to proffer one's genuine concerns which in hindsight should provide valuable information to that author?

If we all "tow the same line" and state that any book assessed on this forum is scholary, because the author might be present, then we are creating our own myth right here.
:-/


Hear hear,spot on Belochka,at every single point.I have long hesitated to join this,what,discussion?To the book,there's nothing much new in it,inspite of all the"thorough"investigations,just learns where and how brains and body fluids
might fly in case one gets the same treatment as the late IF.Scholarly?NO.
But,no doubt,one would get an A+ at any High School for the "essay",by lack
of better knowledge alone.
Sensational?Just as a script for yet another uncanny B-movie.Just imagine,
now if Hollywood would buy the rights,and who would star.......I'm not serious ofcourse,
just "day-dreaming" along the authors line....
That is how it comes across to me,I'm sure that appeals to a certain brand of
people,allthough all are entitled to see it for what they think it's worth.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Lucien »
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Offline Ortino

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #188 on: November 06, 2005, 07:32:08 AM »
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Surely in an open forum such as this one it is reasonable to proffer one's genuine concerns which in hindsight should provide valuable information to that author?  


  I wouldn't describe this as an "open forum." The smallest comments or criticisms can erupt into major disputes and rivalries here. Just look at the Survivors section! If not for this, I would rather not have to defend everything I say.

  I agree that criticism can be valuable, but I'd rather not have my comments held against me in the future by the authors or anyone else. In short, I'll say I was disappointed with the book. I expected more from them and found nothing new or gripping to tempt me to finish it (which I didn't). They clearly worked hard on this book and the information was thorough, but there is something lacking.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Ortino »

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #189 on: November 06, 2005, 08:29:56 AM »
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   I wouldn't describe this as an "open forum." The smallest comments or criticisms can erupt into major disputes and rivalries here. Just look at the Survivors section! If not for this, I would rather not have to defend everything I say.

   I agree that criticism can be valuable, but I'd rather not have my comments held against me in the future by the authors or anyone else. In short, I'll say I was disappointed with the book. I expected more from them and found nothing new or gripping to tempt me to finish it (which I didn't).  


Ortino, I can understand what you mean. In a forum such as this, we should all be able to offer critique and valid intellectual challenges freely and openly - as it is done in the academic world - without the concern (or even fear) of nasty verbal retaliation. But sadly, this is what often ended up happening... although for all it's worth - it has been much better lately.

Regardless, I think that it is still important to try not to be intimidated and provide your honest opinions. Otherwise what's the point of having a discussion forum?

Offline Sarushka

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #190 on: November 06, 2005, 10:20:53 AM »
Laying aside the issue of how the Imperial Family's dymanics were portrayed, would anyone care to offer an opinion on the accuracy of the information presented regarding their captivity and treatment in Ekaterinburg?
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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #191 on: November 06, 2005, 01:39:56 PM »
Sarushka :-*

   I will state that in FOTR we have some very detailed research regarding "who was where"( i.e.: Guard X was an Social Revolutionary who had worked in a car factory near Muscow, Guard Z was not a bolshevic and came from the Baltic states where he had been in prison, etc.... ) We can trace almost all of the guards/executioners  before and after the executions. This minutiae can clarify and help to quash all sorts of romantic myths of sentimental rougue guards helping members of the IF escape, etc....(not withstanding the curious insistance on the 'magical survivor myth' encouraged by the authors.)
    There is also a good deal of material on the IF's day to day behaviour - the quality and amount of food that they enjoyed  -[tea? coffee? soup? chocolate?] /daily activities / entertainment-games-reading materials/ {how many baths can one family take in one day?} ;)
   This research also helps to explode the myths of the poor GDs being forced into a dirty 'graffiti scrawled bathroom.'
    The above mentioned information by itself is not actually NEW - but it is well documented and clear.

    In my poor personal [academic] opinion, this is the only valuable contribution by King and Wilson in this text.
    I expressed this point at this site some time ago. I was sadly disapointed by the highly abusive and  unprofessional retort that I received from Ms Wilson. Mr King did not comment.

If this thread was ever originally The PW/GK Fan Club then I was not aware of it.

rs




 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by rskkiya »

Offline Lucien

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #192 on: November 06, 2005, 04:12:02 PM »
Rskkiya,I believe that anyone in the public view,authors in this case,can expect both to be hailed and to be critisized,depending on the value of their work.Now,if anyone has been reading most,if not all,anywhere else already,than it adds little to the knowledge of that person and as that is one of the reasons,if not the only one,for purchasing such work,then it can be very disappointing to sort of re-read what you already know.

This thread is not about anyones fan-club,it's about a published work by two people that have added little to nothing that wasn't already to be read elsewhere.

And to Ortino,really,as I've been reading elsewhere in this same thread:"put your money in your mouth"!Why would you,or anyone,hoover over a possible future reply by the authors?What nonsens.I have to credit this to PW,she stated,early in this thread,in regard to how popular this book was at that time(april 2004) and she was clairvoyant in her words:"as soon as another one(book) comes along by someone else,I'm sure we'll be last weeks news".
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Offline Ortino

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #193 on: November 06, 2005, 04:50:06 PM »
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And to Ortino,really,as I've been reading elsewhere in this same thread:"put your money in your mouth"!Why would you,or anyone,hoover over a possible future reply by the authors?What nonsens.I have to credit this to PW,she stated,early in this thread,in regard to how popular this book was at that time(april 2004) and she was clairvoyant in her words:"as soon as another one(book) comes along by someone else,I'm sure we'll be last weeks news".


 Let's see.....perhaps the answer is that I don't seek confrontations with others unlike some people? The prospect of being bashed and trashed on this site is not a pleasant one and really, if you noticed, the results have caused people to leave. Besides the fact that your quote makes no sense in this context, Penny certainly wasn't saying that when she was defending her work from such criticisms.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Ortino »

Offline Sarushka

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #194 on: November 06, 2005, 05:28:55 PM »
It's unfortunate that the publisher chose to make bold claims and use superlative words like shocking to market this book. It seems to have caused a lot of ill-will among readers.

As for myself, I'm less concerned with whether the text measures up to the flap blurbs than whether it presents reliable information. I may or may not agree with the authors' interpretation, but as long as I can separate fact from conjecture, I'm happy.

As to the accusation that much of the information presented in Fate can be found elsewhere -- I'm mildly surprised. I encountered a good deal of information in King & Wilson's book for the first time. (Granted, I read Fate before I read Fall of the Romanovs.) Let me then repeat my previous query:
Does anyone care to name what they consider superior sources on the Romanovs' captivity?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by sarahelizabethii »
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King