Author Topic: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson  (Read 289102 times)

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #630 on: March 01, 2008, 08:22:50 PM »
Bear,

BOB is Bob Atchison. I'm ROB Moshein.

The French edition of Volkov reads "contre les oiseaux, en l'air... Ce fut une orgie sauvage."  The only possible translation to English of this is "at the birds, up in the air..It was a savage orgy."  I would be interested in Belochka's (or any other Russian speaker) translation of the original Russian text of this phrase.



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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #631 on: March 01, 2008, 08:54:40 PM »
Belochka,

Take your personal differences with Ashton to PM please.

Back to topic!

AGRBear

I think you might have those names reversed, Bear, but either way, back to topic!

(and thanks, Belochka, for trying, I appreciate it)

Annie

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #632 on: March 01, 2008, 09:25:52 PM »
Belochka,

Take your personal differences with Ashton to PM please.

Back to topic!

AGRBear

I think you might have those names reversed, Bear, but either way, back to topic!

(and thanks, Belochka, for trying, I appreciate it)


You're right, she does! I didn't even notice until Belochka pointed it out, those various insults were aimed at four different people (Belochka, Helen, me, puppylove, in that order) in different posts. She sure spreads the love around!

Okay back to topic...unless everyone has had enough for the night.

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #633 on: March 01, 2008, 10:22:35 PM »
Bear,

BOB is Bob Atchison. I'm ROB Moshein.

The French edition of Volkov reads "contre les oiseaux, en l'air... Ce fut une orgie sauvage."  The only possible translation to English of this is "at the birds, up in the air..It was a savage orgy."  I would be interested in Belochka's (or any other Russian speaker) translation of the original Russian text of this phrase.

Volkov wrote (at page 84):

«Во время пути солдаты вели себя крайне недисциплированно: стреляли с парахода птиц и просто - куда попало. Стреляли не только из ружей но и из пулеметов. Родионов ... » 

My translation:

"During the way soldiers behaved themselves extremely undisciplined: shot birds from the boat and simply - wherever (it) struck. Fired not only from handguns but from machine-guns. Rodionov ..."

(see my posting # 551 for the remainder of Volkov's recollection on board the Rus)


No orgy of any kind, no leering at the Grand Duchesses through open doors!

An explanation is needed as to why Volkov's personal recollections on board the Rus had been altered so drastically by other persons.

Margarita
« Last Edit: March 01, 2008, 10:37:18 PM by Belochka »


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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #634 on: March 02, 2008, 12:07:05 AM »
It seems reasonable to move onto to the next matter raised in FOTR: the accusation extended by the authors that Baroness Buxhoeveden "betrayed their secrets".

At page 141 (with Belochka's emphasis):

"Even as the these horrors unfolded [the alleged Rus incident], another ominous and, in the end, brutally personal situation played itself out. Unknown to the terrified grand duchesses, a previously trusted member of their father's suite willingly betrayed their secrets. .... As the grand duchesses' terrified screams filled the decks of Rus, echoing across the placid waters to the darkness beyond, Buxhoeveden acted. Perhaps in an effort to spare herself from the same fate, or to guarantee her safety, she found Rodionov, telling him not only of the fortune in jewels concealed beneath the clothing of the three young women, but also where the items could be found ... "

At page 143:

"The Romanovs themselves apparently never learned the truth of their former lady-in-waiting's betrayal."

At page 148 (in reference to Buxhoeveden's interrogation):

"During the session, Buxhoeveden repeated her knowledge of the imperial familiy's hidden jewelry, a final betrayal that guaranteed her freedom and helped seal the fate of the prisoners."
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

A morally reprehensible accusation to make against a noble lady who is unable to defend herself today against her accusers.
 
My first question is this

How could Baroness Buxhoeveden (as alleged by the authors) - have known that she had to "spare herself from the same fate"?

My second question is:

Where is the proof of the FOTR authors' accusations directed against Baroness Buxhoeveden?


Perhaps this entire matter is yet another example of "stylistic demand" in operation here?

Margarita


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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #635 on: March 02, 2008, 05:44:07 AM »

Hello Margarita,

I am not sure whether I will read this book now! I don't care for the accusations either and the Baronness couldn't possibly know what the future
fate of the Romanovs would be.

Regards,
Lisa

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #636 on: March 02, 2008, 09:26:36 AM »
Please give the book a chance if the subject matter interests you! For myself I bought and read it because of the controversy, not in spite of it, and I don't have any regrets.

Annie

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #637 on: March 02, 2008, 09:53:29 AM »
It seems reasonable to move onto to the next matter raised in FOTR: the accusation extended by the authors that Baroness Buxhoeveden "betrayed their secrets".

At page 141 (with Belochka's emphasis):

"Even as the these horrors unfolded [the alleged Rus incident], another ominous and, in the end, brutally personal situation played itself out. Unknown to the terrified grand duchesses, a previously trusted member of their father's suite willingly betrayed their secrets. .... As the grand duchesses' terrified screams filled the decks of Rus, echoing across the placid waters to the darkness beyond, Buxhoeveden acted. Perhaps in an effort to spare herself from the same fate, or to guarantee her safety, she found Rodionov, telling him not only of the fortune in jewels concealed beneath the clothing of the three young women, but also where the items could be found ... "

At page 143:

"The Romanovs themselves apparently never learned the truth of their former lady-in-waiting's betrayal."

At page 148 (in reference to Buxhoeveden's interrogation):

"During the session, Buxhoeveden repeated her knowledge of the imperial familiy's hidden jewelry, a final betrayal that guaranteed her freedom and helped seal the fate of the prisoners."
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

A morally reprehensible accusation to make against a noble lady who is unable to defend herself today against her accusers.
 
My first question is this

How could Baroness Buxhoeveden (as alleged by the authors) - have known that she had to "spare herself from the same fate"?

My second question is:

Where is the proof of the FOTR authors' accusations directed against Baroness Buxhoeveden?


Perhaps this entire matter is yet another example of "stylistic demand" in operation here?

Margarita

Very good analysis again, Margarita.

To answer the last questions, I hate to bring up the "A" word again, but yes, this, like the Rus incident, fits right into the AA agenda. AA (sorry Janet) claimed that Bux betrayed the family-though likely she only made the vicious accusation as revenge for Bux's denial of her, and to make excuses as to why she refused to accept her. (She or her supporters also commited character assasination on other detractors such as Olga, Felix Y. and Mountbatten) There was no truth to it at all, but maybe this story was planted there and used as groundwork to follow up on a re-examination of the AA story later(?). If AA said Bux was a traitor, then she had to become one.
 
Margarita makes two excellent points here- one, there is no proof, two, Bux would have no idea what their 'fate' would be to know whether or not she wanted to share it! She had no problem following them to Siberia and staying with them, and getting on the Rus. If she had any fears, why didn't she just turn and go home instead of traveling on with them? She was not a prisoner, but a member of the large entourage. So if she felt her life was in danger, she didn't even have to get on the Rus!

In addition to it all not making sense, the best evidence against the 'betrayal' theory is that Bux certainly did not 'ensure her safety' 'save her own hide' or whatever you call it. Read "Left Behind"- she spent over a year running and hiding across Siberia, always in fear of danger and getting caught, and was only able to leave Russia once she made it to Omsk which was then occupied by the British military, who gave her safe passage out of the country on one of their trains. She got NO favors from the Bolsheviks!

As she explains in her memoirs, the real reason she (and Gilliard, Shura and Gibbes, who traveled the perilous journey across Siberia with her, and they were certainly no traitors) were separated from the IF at Ekaterinburg is because the Bolsheviks did not want to be responsible any foreign nationals. This was out of fear of reprisal from their home gov'ts/armies. The revolution was on shaky ground at that time, and the Reds had a hard enough time fighting the Whites and dealing with various other factions in the country at the time. While Bux. was born and raised in Russia, she had a Danish family name which the Bolsheviks took for Swedish when she was put out with the others. (at the time of their transfer to Ekaterinburg, their entourage of friends and servants was reduced from about 30-something to a small handful.) This is the reality behind the Bux story, there was no 'betrayal'.

In case anyone wants to read what Bux herself said and experienced:

http://alexanderpalace.org/leftbehind
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 10:10:43 AM by Annie »

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #638 on: March 02, 2008, 10:30:01 AM »
Bear,

BOB is Bob Atchison. I'm ROB Moshein.

The French edition of Volkov reads "contre les oiseaux, en l'air... Ce fut une orgie sauvage."  The only possible translation to English of this is "at the birds, up in the air..It was a savage orgy."  I would be interested in Belochka's (or any other Russian speaker) translation of the original Russian text of this phrase.

Volkov wrote (at page 84):

«Во время пути солдаты вели себя крайне недисциплированно: стреляли с парахода птиц и просто - куда попало. Стреляли не только из ружей но и из пулеметов. Родионов ... » 

My translation:

"During the way soldiers behaved themselves extremely undisciplined: shot birds from the boat and simply - wherever (it) struck. Fired not only from handguns but from machine-guns. Rodionov ..."

(see my posting # 551 for the remainder of Volkov's recollection on board the Rus)


No orgy of any kind, no leering at the Grand Duchesses through open doors!

An explanation is needed as to why Volkov's personal recollections on board the Rus had been altered so drastically by other persons.

Margarita


I believe we know now that there is a fourth albeit "unwitting" factual error.  Here is the same sentence from the French edition of Volkov, at 126.
"Le conduite des soldats pendant le voyage fut abominable.  Aucune discipline.  Ils tiraient des coups de fusil et meme de mitrailleuse, sans rime ni raison, contre les oiseaux, en l'air...Ce fut une orgie sauvage."

Clearly then, the "it was a savage orgy" was NOT EVEN WRITTEN BY VOLKOV.  This must have been some "stylistic" embellishment by Semenov, the translator.  Therefore, any discussion based upon that phrase is meaningless as being remotely factual, since VOLKOV HIMSELF NEVER SAID IT.

As for the entire Bux. affair, it has been discussed quite completely here, we don't need to re hash the defamation of the woman's character all over again.
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,9863.0.html
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 12:49:46 PM by Forum Admin »

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #639 on: March 02, 2008, 11:06:17 AM »
Bear,

BOB is Bob Atchison. I'm ROB Moshein.

The French edition of Volkov reads "contre les oiseaux, en l'air... Ce fut une orgie sauvage."  The only possible translation to English of this is "at the birds, up in the air..It was a savage orgy."  I would be interested in Belochka's (or any other Russian speaker) translation of the original Russian text of this phrase.

Volkov wrote (at page 84):

«Во время пути солдаты вели себя крайне недисциплированно: стреляли с парахода птиц и просто - куда попало. Стреляли не только из ружей но и из пулеметов. Родионов ... » 

My translation:

"During the way soldiers behaved themselves extremely undisciplined: shot birds from the boat and simply - wherever (it) struck. Fired not only from handguns but from machine-guns. Rodionov ..."

(see my posting # 551 for the remainder of Volkov's recollection on board the Rus)


No orgy of any kind, no leering at the Grand Duchesses through open doors!

An explanation is needed as to why Volkov's personal recollections on board the Rus had been altered so drastically by other persons.

Margarita


I believe we know now that there is a fourth albeit "unwitting" factual error.  Here is the same sentence from the French edition of Volkov, at 126.
"Le conduite des soldats pendant le voyage fut abominable.  Aucune discipline.  Ils tiraient des coups de fusil et meme de mitrailleuse, sans rime ni raison, contre les oiseaux, en l'air...Ce fut une orgie sauvage."

Clearly then, the "it was a savage orgy" was NOT EVEN WRITTEN BY VOLKOV.  This must have been some "stylistic" embellishment by Semenov, the translator.  Therefore, any discussion based upon that phrase is meaningless as being remotely factual, since VOLKOV HIMSELF NEVER SAID IT.

As for the entire Bux. affair, it has been discussed quite completely here, we don't need to re hash the defamation of the woman's character all over again.
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,239.0.html


Sorry about that Rob and Bob.

So,  now,  we know  Moshein, King or Wilson did not deliberately change the wording because of some kind of agenda.  It was Semenov who added the extra dramatic line.

Thanks everyone for getting all of this worked through step by step.   

This just supports the reason why I try to follow up on the sources back to the original.  In this case,  I didn't have the original.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 11:10:19 AM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #640 on: March 02, 2008, 12:59:31 PM »
Here is synopsis of the FOTR discussion of Bux. from the other thread, didn't mean to shut down that discussion totally, sorry:
FOTR page 68;  "Before he left Petrograd, Soloviev apparently was given 200,000 rubles, collected by Count Paul von Benckendorff for the prisoners."  [source Bykov, October 17, 1927, in TsDOOSO f.41. op1,d. 129, see also memoirs of Tatiana Teumina on TsDOOSO, f 221,op.2, d. 848 Markov, 228-262; Kasvinov, 309-406.]


"In his book, Benkendorff did not reveal the name of the courier, simply writing that "the money reached its destination, thanks to the devotion and energy of X"  [source Benkendorff page 129]
I accept Benkendorff at his word on this. He is a reliable source
" Maria Rasputin later recalled:  "Just before the Bolsheviks moved the capital, Boris was in Petrograd to collect a rather substantial sum for Their Majesties.  This he did and conveyed it into trusted hands."  [source Maria Rasputin, manuscript, in private hands in the United States]
This dates Boris in Petrograd to about early February 1918. Markov confirms meeting Soloviev at Vyroubova's flat at this time and states "Soon after this he departed for Tobolsk with some things for Their Majesties." @ pg130. HOWEVER, on pg. 131, Serge Markov goes on to say that he forged travel documents in the name of SOLOVIEV. "I typed in this name and went to Madame Vyroubova and proudly displayed my new "papers." She gave a cry of horror. "Whatever have you done Serezha? Solov'ev is the name of Rasputin's son in law."  I had never thought of that, but now that the form was already filled in, I could not alter it. @pg 131.

Now, Nicholas Markov (no relationship to Serge M.) was an avid monarchist working to assist the Imperial Family.  His deposition to Sokolov:
Some time later another officer left for Siberia, Serge Markov.  He had ties to Dehn and Vyroubova and was sent by their wishes and at their expense.  As our organization had little money, I took advantage of his leaving to task Markov to look up N**, to make contact with him and to inform us of his work.   ...

In spring 1918, officer S. Markov returned to Petrogard.  He told us that in Tyumen, Rasputin's son in law Soloviev was the head of Vyroubova's organization, and that he had been charged with the health of the Imperial Family and that the presence there of our officer N** was, to say the least, undesirable.  ...

S. Markov was someone I did not really know personally and so I followed the opinion of Dehn, it seemed to me upon his returm from Siberia that in hindsight: his tales inspired little confidence in me; he was not very convincing.  Personally, he gave me the impression of a young man audacious in excess, and greatly avaricious when it came to money.

(According to Victor Sokolov, one of the Vyroubova "team"): In the end of March or early April 1918 Markov returned.  He told us that in Tobolsk he met with enormous forces, entire cavalry regiments which were ready to save the Imperial Family at the first possible moment, and they occupied the central positions and that at the head of the entire matter was Soloviev.  ...  After some research, it was clearly and entirely under the orders of Soloviev that he had learned of what had gone one before and that he directed all of his movements.  I give absolutely no credence to the tales of Markov; they have no measure of truth."



" Soloviev was back in Tobolsk on February 21, when he turned over the 200,000 rubles to a certain "Mademoiselle X, a lady of the court," as Serge Markov called her.  This mysterious woman was, Markov said, ill at the time the Romanovs were originally sent to Tobolsk, arrived at a later date, but "the guards refused her entry to the Governor's House"  She lived in her own apartment in town" [source Markov 212]
Markov pg 211 says Then I hurried to a house where I had reconnoitred by daylight, where Mademoiselle X, a lady of the Court, was living.  At the time Their Majesties had had to leave Tsarskoe Selo, Mademoiselle X was ill;  when she followed them to Tobol'sk the guards refused her entry to the Governor's House, so she was waiting in Tobol'sk unti the committee changed its mind.  She was loyally devoted to Their Majesties, and enjoyed their confidence and regard. She had never met me before, and was surprised that I had come on behalf of Madame Vyroubova, from whom I brought  a letter to her, whereupon her alarm changed to pleasure.  She thanked me and at once declared her willingness to deliver to Their Majesties the parcels I had brought with me, without exciting remark.  She hoped to accomplish this by means of the valet Volkov, who had free access to the house, and with whom she was in touch.  I left money and letters with her, which she promised to give Volkov next day.  We made arrangements for a meeting the following evening and I went home full of bright hopes."

"Markov clearly meant Baroness Sophie Buxhoeveden, the only "lady of the court" who had not joined the imperial family due to illness, who later came to Tobolsk; who was refused admission to the Governor's House' and who had her own apartment in the town." [no source] Buxhoeveden does seem to fit the description, and pretty much nobody else does.

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #641 on: March 02, 2008, 01:00:28 PM »
part 2:

page 69

"That Soloviev turned this money over to Buxhoeveden on February 21 is confirmed by four separate sources:  Soloviev, himself; Serge Markov; Maria Rasputin; and by Staff Captain Lepilin, Hermogen's envoy."  [source see Markov, 214-215, Maria Rasputin, manuscript in a private collection in the United States; Kasvinov, 403-405; Interrogation of NV Lepilin, November 17, 1918, by Kirsta, certified copy in author's collection.]
Markov pg. 215: "Next day I visited Mademoiselle X again. She was expecting me.  The greater part of the things I had brought with me had already been delivered to the Imperial Family; only a book or two and a bottle of eau de cologne remained which were causing Mademoiselle X great anxiety.  She could not see any possiblity of conveying them to Their Majesties.  Her lively chatter and her worry about the eau de cologne reminded me of Bishop Hermogen's words.  It seemed to me that we had all been quite blind to the signs of approaching danger."
I do not see anywhere where this "confirms" Soloviev turned ANYTHING over to Buxhoevden. Please also remember that this is not what Markov saw, it is Makov repeating only what Soloviev TOLD him..


Yet, Buxhoeveden did not hand over the money to Volkov as she had claimed.
Where exactly DID Buxhoeveden CLAIM to have handed a large sum of money to Volkov? I've never seen it and this statement is not sourced in FOTR.

  On February 27, just six days after Soloviev gave Buxhoeveden the packages, the prisoners learned that as of March 1, they would all be put on ordinary soldiers' rations.  According to Kobylinsky, who had assumed responsibility for the Romanovs' finances, the move came just in time as, "by the beginning of March, all of the money previously sent had vanished, and no more arrived for us."  [source Kobylinsky, April 6-10, 1919 in SA, vol 3, doc. 29]
The move to prisoners rations on March 1 is correct.
Now the reliability of the sources:
Nicholas Markov (no relationship to Serge M.) was an avid monarchist working to assist the Imperial Family.  His deposition to Sokolov:
Some time later another officer left for Siberia, Serge Markov.  He had ties to Dehn and Vyroubova and was sent by their wishes and at their expense.  As our organization had little money, I took advantage of his leaving to task Markov to look up N**, to make contact with him and to inform us of his work.   ...

In spring 1918, officer S. Markov returned to Petrogard.  He told us that in Tyumen, Rasputin's son in law Soloviev was the head of Vyroubova's organization, and that he had been charged with the health of the Imperial Family and that the presence there of our officer N** was, to say the least, undesirable.  ...

S. Markov was someone I did not really know personally and so I followed the opinion of Dehn, it seemed to me upon his returm from Siberia that in hindsight: his tales inspired little confidence in me; he was not very convincing.  Personally, he gave me the impression of a young man audacious in excess, and greatly avaricious when it came to money.

(According to Victor Sokolov, one of the Vyroubova "team"): In the end of March or early April 1918 Markov returned.  He told us that in Tobolsk he met with enormous forces, entire cavalry regiments which were ready to save the Imperial Family at the first possible moment, and they occupied the central positions and that at the head of the entire matter was Soloviev.  ...  After some research, it was clearly and entirely under the orders of Soloviev that he had learned of what had gone one before and that he directed all of his movements.  I give absolutely no credence to the tales of Markov; they have no measure of truth."

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #642 on: March 02, 2008, 01:01:35 PM »
and
Turns out, folks, that Soloviev was arrested in Vladivostok in December 1919 and charged with being a Bolshevik agent. Both he and his wife Matrona (not Maria) Rasputina were convicted based on the overwhelming evidence produced at trial. Here's what Soloviev did:

They used the Rasputin name/connection with Vyroubova and Lili Dehn, and with their unwitting help, set up a network of monarchists in Petrograd and Moscow, headed by Nicholas Evgeneivich Markov, who still had money to help the Imperial Family. They went around telling them the grand tale that they had 300 loyal Russian soldiers in the Ekaterinburg region.  Tatiana Botkina later testified that this was "a crock", that there was not organization of any one at all under Soloviev in Ekaterinburg. Meanwhile, old Mr. S. set up residence in January 1918, exactly at the junction of the railway between Tiumen and Tobolsk. So, he sets himself up as the ONLY central contact point for all assistance and rescue efforts for the Imperial Family, and of course, all these people who are sent out from Petrograd/Moscow are forced by the railway to stop in Tiumen, and of course to see Mr. S. Mr. S selectively filters the people who are permitted to journey to Tobolsk and later Ekaterinburg. Those who he does permit to go are only given permission to go for one day ONLY. Anyone who does not give in to Soloviev's demands is conveniently denounced immediately by Mr. S. and delivered up to the local Bolsheviks for arrest. To Dehn's credit, once she went to Tiumen and met Soloviev in person, she returned "with little confidence in him.  His having left her with the impression of a young man who was audacious to excess and demonstrably avaricious in questions of money."  Soloviev is collecting all the money for the Imperial Family, and not a kopek is actually getting through. Anyone who comes out to investigate is told the "tale", and if they don't accept it, they too are conveniently denounced and handed over to the local Soviet for arrest.

Sokolov upon further background check found out that Soloviev had been involved with the Bolshevik movement from the very first days of the Revolution. Soloviev's own diary revealed that he only married Matrona Rasputin in order to take advantage of the name. Furthermore, Soloviev's diary revealed that fifteen days BEFORE the transfer of the Emperor from Tobolsk, Yakovlev told Soloviev of the exact date: April 12, 1918.

So, the bottom line, to me is
There is evidence that 200,000 rubles was sent to Siberia for the support of the Imperial Family. There is no doubt that this money never REACHED the Imperial Family.  We know that Soloviev's wife says he got the money.  There is evidence that Markov may have been the courier. There is NO EVIDENCE that Soloviev turned over this money to Buxhoeveden, nor even claimed that he DID give Bux. the 200,000.  We know that Soloviev was a Bolshevik agent, working to filter out those trying to reach the IF in Siberia, so either way HE would have gotten the money.  We have evidence that Markov himself was a Bolshevik agent, as he was captain of a Red Guard Squadron, and split immediately off to Germany.

This allegation that Buxhoevden stole 200,000 rubles and betrayed the Imperial Family just seems of whole cloth. There isn't even enough evidence to support the merest hint of it. Shoddy research, shoddy editing, whatever the explanation, it isn't true and doesn't belong in a book claiming to be accurate history. IMO after doing my OWN research, heck their sources don't even say what they CLAIM the say, at least the ones we can verify for ourselves.

Sophie B. deserves a much better eptiaph than this, that is the saddest part.  She was devoted to the Imperial Family and voluntarily followed them to exile. She ought not be accused of crimes she didn't commit.

Annie

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #643 on: March 02, 2008, 01:40:08 PM »


This allegation that Buxhoevden stole 200,000 rubles and betrayed the Imperial Family just seems of whole cloth. There isn't even enough evidence to support the merest hint of it. Shoddy research, shoddy editing, whatever the explanation, it isn't true and doesn't belong in a book claiming to be accurate history. IMO after doing my OWN research, heck their sources don't even say what they CLAIM the say, at least the ones we can verify for ourselves.

In addition to everything else, one of the dumbest things is, it's obvious she never had that kind of money or she'd have been able to buy her way out of the country and wouldn't have suffered for over a year, struggling, fleeing, hiding, as she did before the Brits gave her passage out on a military train. That should be a very big indicator of what really did or did not happen.

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Sophie B. deserves a much better eptiaph than this, that is the saddest part.  She was devoted to the Imperial Family and voluntarily followed them to exile. She ought not be accused of crimes she didn't commit.

That's true, the saddest part about stories being distorted for an agenda is that real people's reps are involved.

It may be OT, but is there any record of what became of Matrona Rasputin's husband?

Offline AGRBear

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Re: The Fate of The Romanovs,Greg King,Penny Wilson
« Reply #644 on: March 02, 2008, 02:31:11 PM »
Steinberg and Khrustalev wrote in THE FALL OF THE ROMANOVS pps 390-1:

>> Solovyov, Boris Nikolaevich (b. 18993).  Lieutenant, son of the treasurer of the Holy Synod N.V. Solovyov, member of Rasutin's circle in Petrograd, officer for commissions and adjutant to the chairman of the Military Commission of the State Duma Committee.  In Septemember 1917, married the daughter of Grigory Rasputin, Maria (Matryona).  Served as Anna Vyrubova's courier, delivering correspondence, money and gifts to and from the Imperial family in Tobolsk and planning the family's escape.  While living in Pokrovskoe and later to Tiumen, he tried to bring the various efforts to free the tsar and his family under his own control.  Stayed in close contact with Father Aleksei Vasiliev, the family's priest in Tobolsky, and with one of the family's maids.  Arrested in March 1918.  Many emigres later maintained that Solovyov was a provocateur, acting on behalf of the Bolsheviks in order to expose and abort genuine plans to free the tsar and his family.  Died abroad.<<

I do not find enough evidence provided by anyone that Buxhoveden was not loyal to the Royal Family.

As you can see,  I  can't agree on all of King's and Wilson's  opinions and conclusion.  But I don't agree with everything in other history books either.

Don't let Annie, Helen or anyone else steer you away from FATE OF THE ROMANOVS.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 02:40:10 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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