Author Topic: Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories #2  (Read 89441 times)

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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #165 on: September 13, 2007, 09:02:10 PM »
Agnes de Stoeckl, whose husband was gentleman in waiting to Grand Duchess Marie ('Greek Minny) ', was /is absolutely beautiful!!!

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She wrote her memoirs which are fabulous and a must-read--full of royal stories and news but nothing tawdry or catty, but really well-written. The families stayed very close and there were many Greek, Russian and British royals at her daughter's wedding.
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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Offline dmitri

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #166 on: September 14, 2007, 01:53:11 AM »
I can't say Xenia was as pretty as her Mother, Maria Feodorovna.

Offline Mari

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #167 on: September 14, 2007, 04:34:15 AM »
Quote
Even today one can see that actresses in some of the older films had excellent posture compared with women today. They certainly look much better!



That's a good point! Actresses in the Golden Age of Hollywood were schooled by the Studios to walk, talk and dress a certain way. You never saw those Actresses slouch, flop. and walk like a Duck....in order to present a grace and beauty they were not even allowed out of the House without a certain dress and makeup code. Therefore they were always Beautiful and Memorable. In the Eighteenth and Nineteenth Century Women were groomed in this same way by Corsets, Backboards, Teachers, Dance Instructors, and Parents. Even in the Twentieth Century until the 1970's Girls were sent to Charm School and Dance Schools.  My Aunt who is from a different Era is forever complaining about the way Women look today.

Offline NoirFemme

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #168 on: September 14, 2007, 05:19:03 AM »
That would be very interesting, Noir Femme.  I'd like to read your books.  How can we find them?

Regards,
Lisa
www.webwritereditor.com
www.bookaddiction.blogspot.com

Ah ha! Found it: Manners and Movement in Costume Plays by Chisman, Isabel and Hester Emilie Raven-Hart

On the Jackie Kennedy note, as well as Old Hollywood actresses(and 19th century ladies): didn't most women of breeding learn to ride horses at a young age? You certainly can't learn to have bad posture on a horse!

And I'm not published yet! >.< It's slow going, but I'm just happy to write books.  ;D
« Last Edit: September 14, 2007, 05:20:54 AM by NoirFemme »
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Offline historylover

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #169 on: September 14, 2007, 06:56:38 AM »
That sounds like a very interesting book, NoirFemme. My problem is that my fiance is shorter than me and I really think that it doesn't improve my posture! I'm going to try to stand up very straight when he isn't around!
\
Your series of novels certainly has an interesting title.  I am looking forward to reading them when they get published!

Best Regards,
Lisa

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #170 on: September 14, 2007, 08:26:54 AM »
Having acted in any number of 'costume' dramas and having been a line and movement director in a performance of Oscar Wilde's "The Importance of Being Ernest", I can speak from experience about the problems of getting actors and  -  especially  -  actresses, I'm afraid,  to walk, sit, use their hands, not use their hands, use fans in the way they were meant to be used (for an entire language of communication now lost), speak, how to pour tea correctly, use a cup and saucer, use a pen, inkwell and blotter ... just about everything, really. In the Wilde play I drilled the actors and actresses on different occasions before puttng them together. The women wore long sheets around their waists and theatrical corsets so as to get them used to the restrictions on movement while still moving fluidly. The effort nearly killed some of them  -  but they got it right in the end

At the French Court women wore silk slippers when in full Court Dress. They were supposed to slither with tiny, mincing steps over the polished wood or marble floors. The huge paniers were difficult to manipulate  -  especially when the ladies had to negotiate the very narrow staircases to their attic rooms in Versailles. I can testify to this having been once allowed to climb them.

Up to the 1950s, most women wore some form of 'foundation' undergarment   -  even young women, because of wearing nylons which were attached to a suspender belt. Generally speaking, fashion dictated the use of 'girdles' until Dior's 'New Look' began to disappear around 1960. My mother's dresses were stiffened not by whalebone but by strong plastics or thin metal. There was also a brief revival of stiffened petticoats (made of highly inflammable material) and even metal hoops under short-ish skirts.

The crinoline (arguably the most graceful if unwieldy fashion ever adopted by women) enjoyed an enormous vogue from c. 1850 - 1865. They were firstly made of whalebone but, towards the end of the period, dress supports made of modified watchspring metal made life lighter and easier.

Offline pandora

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #171 on: September 14, 2007, 06:52:38 PM »
Oh my gosh, the magic word "crinoline" was mentioned! I have a picture of myself that my parents took in the early 1960's wearing a Polly Flinders dress with a substantial petticoat or crinoline underneath...my only memory to this day is that the petticoat/crinoline was scratchy! But the dress was certainly pretty and I do remember feeling "very special" for that Easter dinner.

Offline Mari

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #172 on: September 15, 2007, 02:09:30 AM »
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They were supposed to slither with tiny, mincing steps over the polished wood or marble floors.



I wonder if the tiny mincing steps and the sliding motion was fashion or that the Paniers caused a walk like this! I can imagine the  Attic Stairs would be very tricky
« Last Edit: September 15, 2007, 02:11:55 AM by Mari »

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #173 on: September 15, 2007, 03:39:38 AM »
Panniers weren't unique to Versailles - they were standard court dress in all European countries in the 18th century, and in Russia.  The gliding walk of the ladies of Versailles however  was unique - and not limited to when they wore hoops.  Of course, taking short steps when wearing hoops probably makes it easier to move around, but the walk was possibly yet another mark of being 'in' - if you didn't know how to do it you were clearly not part of the inner circle.  Nancy Mitford says Versailles "had a climate, a language, a moral code and customs all its own" and to "break the rules from sheer ignorance would be thought barbarous".  So you had to walk the walk and talk the talk.

But I wonder whether, when they were not on show, ladies of Versailles who had to live in attics (Madame de Pompadour never did!) might have taken off their shoes to climb the stairs, their hoops folded up at their sides.  So much was for show - if you weren't in the public gaze you didn't exist and so could be a bit more comfortable.

Offline brnbg aka: liljones1968

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #174 on: October 03, 2007, 06:13:59 PM »
One more example of a court gown, not a Grand Duchess version but a Princess one.



This is Princess Elena of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, future spouse of Prince Albert of Saxe-Altenburg. She was a daughter of GDss Ekaterina Mikhailovna and Duke George of Mecklenburg-Strelitz.


wonderful as always!

question:  doesn't this foto show her as a married woman -- as opposed to "future spouse..."?    i always thought unmarried women were much less "adorned" than she is here (ie -- a plain or pearl-edged kokoshnik, rather than a jewelled, like the one she's wearing here.)     but as i always try to remind myself -- i'm often wrong!  ;-P
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Offline dmitri

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #175 on: October 03, 2007, 10:04:09 PM »
Well she was a most strikingly beautiful woman. Others however looked magnificent in court gowns. Maria Feodorovna looked superb.

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #176 on: October 04, 2007, 12:27:05 AM »
wonderful as always!

question:  doesn't this foto show her as a married woman -- as opposed to "future spouse..."?    i always thought unmarried women were much less "adorned" than she is here (ie -- a plain or pearl-edged kokoshnik, rather than a jewelled, like the one she's wearing here.)     but as i always try to remind myself -- i'm often wrong!  ;-P

Well, the source dates the picture as the end of the 1880s, Elena married in 1891. Also she was not a Grand Duchess so her dress is different from the usual gowns of Grand Duchesses.

Offline FaithWhiteRose

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #177 on: October 06, 2007, 04:35:46 PM »
Well she was a most strikingly beautiful woman. Others however looked magnificent in court gowns. Maria Feodorovna looked superb.

I have to agree with you on that, dmitri. She was a gorgeous woman, in a glamorous dress or not.

Offline FairyCutie86

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #178 on: October 08, 2007, 03:50:21 PM »
Thanks to everyone who posted these pictures.  I love looking at Royalty clothes.  They are so beautiful and intricate.  I'm glad we women don't have to wear corsets any more.  I've always wanted to try one on for the heck of it though.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 10:07:34 PM by Alixz »

Offline rgt9w

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #179 on: October 16, 2007, 04:34:48 PM »
Ulla Tillander-Godenhielm describes the court dress worn during the last reign by maids of honour in the chapter "The Ladies of the Imperial Court" in her book, The Russian Imperial Award System 1984-1917

Mistress of the Court: A russian style dress of gold embroidered raspberry velvet with a long skirt and an underskirt of white satin also richly embroidered in gold. The headdress was a kokoshnik of the same color velvet with a long white veil of lace or tulle.

Lady of Honour and Maids of Honour of the Bedchamber: Court costume was the same cut and design as that of the Mistress of the Court except the kokoshnik and the dress were made of dark green velvet.

Maids of Honour who attended the Empress: Same cut and design dress as above, but dress made of crimson velvet embroidered with gold.

Maids of Honour who attended Grand Duchesses (wives of Grand Dukes): Same as above made of crimson velvet embroidered with silver.

Maids of Honour who atteded Grand Duchess (Daughter or Grandaughter of Emperor): Same dress design and cut as those above, but made of light blue velvet.

Of note, Ms. Tillander-Godenhielm states that when maids of honour married, they had to retire from their position, but were allowed to attend court functions in court dress of the same cut, made of any material and ornamented in any fashion.

As noted in Mr. Nicholson's article, maids of honour were required to wear the diamond studded chiffres.