Author Topic: Tatiana's French bulldog, Ortipo  (Read 133455 times)

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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Tatiana's French bulldog, Ortino
« Reply #120 on: January 04, 2009, 04:07:05 PM »
I've brought this up before, but the more Russian sources I read, the more strongly I believe Tatiana's dog's name was in fact Ortipo. Virtually all the Russian sources that directly quote archival documents use the "p" spelling, as do a few English sources. I find it hard to believe that so many different Russian-speaking editors looking at the original letters and diaries written by various members of the imperial family all could have made the same mistake.

Russian sources for "Ortipo":
Royal Sisters of Mercy (quoted in OTMA's letters & diaries)
Dnevniki Nikolaya II i Imperatritsy Aleksandry Fedorovny: 1917-1918
Tsesarevich (quoted in Aleksei's 1916 diary)
Pered Rasstrelom (quoted in Alexandra's letters)

English sources for "Ortipo":
Complete Wartime Correspondence (quoted in both N&A's letters)
Vyrubova (quoted in Alexandra's letters)

Lili Dehn gives a similar alternate spelling: Artipo. Dehn is by no means a scholarly source like  The Complete Wartime Correspondence, but she (like Vyrubova) would have heard the dog's name spoken by the IF themselves, so I find her approximation particularly compelling evidence.


Letters compiled and posted on the main APTM site give both spellings: Alexandra is quoted using "Ortipo" and Anastasia uses "Ortino." Anastasia's letters were obtained by Bob & Rob through a Russian research assistant who personally retrieved them from GARF -- however, Royal Sisters of Mercy quotes some of those same letters by Anastasia, giving the spelling as "Ortipo," so something is clearly amiss. In fact, the only print sources I've been able to determine that support "Ortino" are  French or English: Eugenie de Greece's Les tsarevitch: enfant martyr, Spiridovich, and Fate of the Romanovs.


For the record, neither Gilliard, Buxhoeveden, nor Massie seem to mention the dog by name.

This will likely ruffle a few feathers but IMO the majority of the evidence suggests that the "Ortino" spelling is a mis-transliteration, and Ortipo is correct.
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Offline Marie-Catherine

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Re: Tatiana's French bulldog, Ortino
« Reply #121 on: January 04, 2009, 04:16:19 PM »
In fact, from what I've seen, in Eugenie of Greece's Le tsarevitch : Enfant martyr, it was written Ortipo. Maybe, in other parts of the books, it was Ortino, but I've never seen it.


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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Tatiana's French bulldog, Ortino
« Reply #122 on: January 04, 2009, 04:30:00 PM »
In fact, from what I've seen, in Eugenie of Greece's Le tsarevitch : Enfant martyr, it was written Ortipo. Maybe, in other parts of the books, it was Ortino, but I've never seen it.

Oh -- thank you for the correction! My source for that info was an old post by Lanie. I have only excerpts of Le tsarevitch, so I don't know if other parts of the book use the "Ortino" spelling, or if Lanie was mistaken.

Do you recall a page number so I can have a look for myself? (Not that I don't trust you -- I'm just curious if it's the IF or the author who use the "P" spelling.)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 04:33:41 PM by Sarushka »
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Offline Marie-Catherine

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Re: Tatiana's French bulldog, Ortino
« Reply #123 on: January 04, 2009, 04:35:39 PM »
It's on page 261, where Olga's says that a pig found a way to fight with Ortipo.


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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Tatiana's French bulldog, Ortino
« Reply #124 on: January 04, 2009, 04:45:48 PM »
Ha! That's an unusual detail. : D
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Offline Ally Kumari

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Re: Tatiana's French bulldog, Ortino
« Reply #125 on: January 04, 2009, 04:54:21 PM »
It's on page 261, where Olga's says that a pig found a way to fight with Ortipo.

What? Pig? May I know more please?

Offline Marie-Catherine

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Re: Tatiana's French bulldog, Ortino
« Reply #126 on: January 04, 2009, 07:12:24 PM »
Here's a draft translation by me of that part of the letter : "Alex Petr. sold the pigs for 9oo Rub., keeping only one, the woman, I believe, which also found a way to fight with Ortipo. Jim coughs and is staying home. "

It comes from a looong letter Olga wrote for her mother. It's from April 15/28 to April 22/May 5 1918.


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Leyla

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Re: Tatiana's French bulldog, Ortino
« Reply #127 on: January 04, 2009, 08:13:30 PM »
Here's a draft translation by me of that part of the letter : "Alex Petr. sold the pigs for 9oo Rub., keeping only one, the woman, I believe, which also found a way to fight with Ortipo. Jim coughs and is staying home. "

It comes from a looong letter Olga wrote for her mother. It's from April 15/28 to April 22/May 5 1918.

That's very cute. I don't think I have ever read this letter. Do you have it in full?

Offline Marie-Catherine

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Re: Tatiana's French bulldog, Ortino
« Reply #128 on: January 04, 2009, 08:19:55 PM »
I only have it in French. It's actually not my book and I only have some excerpts that Sarushak sent to me, because she knew I speak French.

The letter is very, very long. As I said, she covers 7 days and Olga wrote a lot. More, I don't know if I can post my personnal translation on the forum. Maybe, Sarushka could tell me if I can or cannot ?


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I am_Tatianochka

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Re: Tatiana's French bulldog, Ortino
« Reply #129 on: April 29, 2009, 04:30:50 PM »
When did she get her? :)

Victory_L

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Re: Tatiana's French bulldog, Ortino
« Reply #130 on: May 17, 2009, 02:47:28 PM »
Добрый день! Я получила из архива ГАРФ копию письма Татьяны Николаевны к отцу. В этом письме она сообщает отцу о щенках Ортипо. Письмо написано по-русски и имя собаки она пишет "Ортипо", а не "Ортино". Я спросила об этом у Нины Зверевой (автор книги "Августейшие сестры милосердия") Она видела в архиве много писем дочерей Николая II и сказала, что девочки иногда путали буквы, так как говорили и писали на трех языках. Но чаще имя собаки писали "Ортипо". К сожалению, не могу разместить фото письма на этой странице. Я поместила фото в своем фотоальбоме: http://www.liveinternet.ru/photoalbumshow.php?albumid=106333&seriesid=1241051


I have receivet a copy of the letter from Tatiana to father. In this letter she writes about puppies callet Ortipo.The letter is in russian and she uses the name "Ortipo" instead of " Ortino" I asked about it Nina Zvereva(who is the author of the book "Avgusteyshie Sestry Miloserdiya" (Royal Sisters of Mercy). She had looked a lot of letters of Nikolai II daughter`s and she said that the girls sometimes mixed a letters at the message. The reason was they were about to speak and write on three languages. The name of the dog was used Ortipo more often. Unfortunately I am  not can to put a copy of the letter on this page.  I have inserted it in  my fotoalbum:
              http://www.liveinternet.ru/photoalbumshow.php?albumid=106333&seriesid=1241051

Offline nena

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Re: Tatiana's French bulldog, Ortino
« Reply #131 on: May 17, 2009, 02:55:38 PM »
Thank you a lot, ! Nice to see you back here! So, Tatiana used 'Ortipo'.
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Victory_L

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Re: Tatiana's French bulldog, Ortino
« Reply #132 on: May 17, 2009, 03:07:06 PM »
Thank you, Nena! So do I am glad meeting!

Offline clockworkgirl21

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Re: Tatiana's French bulldog, Ortino
« Reply #133 on: June 12, 2009, 11:52:28 PM »
Quote
This will likely ruffle a few feathers but IMO the majority of the evidence suggests that the "Ortino" spelling is a mis-transliteration, and Ortipo is correct.

Well, that is going to take some getting used to.

Offline mitia

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Re: Tatiana's French bulldog, Ortino
« Reply #134 on: June 22, 2009, 11:37:21 AM »
All this is wonderful to know, and with years passing by we shall know more and more.....
 I have been a " french bulldog person " for YEARS ( I am 53 years old ), and Ortino or Ortipo does not really make any difference for me. The important thing is that Tatiana had a brindle Frenchie, that she liked her dearly and had the consolation of having her Frenchie with her till the very end of her far too short life.
My Frenchie is Duncan, some days I call him Can, others Titi, other HE decides himself what his name will be for the day. That is just French Bulldog way of life, and French Bulldog people on this forum will understand what I mean.