Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899) discussion, pictures II

[ashanti01]

I don't believe this has been posted. If it has please let me know and I'll remove it.



George and Nikolai Mikhailovich

[aussiechick12]

ashanti! that last photo is wonderful, i had never seen it before. Thank you 

[dmitri]

I always found Grand Duke George Alexandrovich, brother of Nicholas II rather interesting and terribly tragic. I guess the only good thing about his early death is he avoided the revolution and the fate of his brothers. To die the way he did and be so disabled before his death is rather sad. I am glad he was able to help his murdered brother beyond the grave by supplying a DNA sample. One wonders whether he could have helped Nicholas at all or his younger brother Michael? I also wonder who he might have married from the eligible Princesses of Europe if he had been a well man. Certainly he made Nicholas II laugh with his jokes that were written down by Nicholas and laughed at after George's death. Certainly he was missed by his mother, Maria Feodorovna greatly. You can see how she reacted at his funeral. Fancy losing all her sons. What mother could have got over losing 4 sons. One was a baby, one incurable and the other two murdered. I believe she knew privately they were both dead as well as Alexandra and the children. She just never admitted it publicly. How very sad. 

[grandduchessella]

There was already a large thread on George so I have merged this new one into it.

[ashanti01]

[Amanda_Misha]

Very pretty photos and the information on George is very interesting
Two questions:
Exists something that George has written?
The observatory that George wanted was constructed?
Thanks for its answer
Greetings to all

[ashanti01]

Nicholas, George, Michael & Xenia

[LisaDavidson]

Very pretty photos and the information on George is very interesting
Two questions:
Exists something that George has written?
The observatory that George wanted was constructed?
Thanks for its answer
Greetings to all

The observatory at Abbas Tuman was constructed and I believe is still in use. Undoubtedly some of what George wrote survived and is likely in various archives in Russia.

[BarefootContessa]

I also wonder who he might have married from the eligible Princesses of Europe if he had been a well man.

I was wondering this too- did his parents have any princesses in mind for him before he became sick?

[LisaDavidson]

I also wonder who he might have married from the eligible Princesses of Europe if he had been a well man.

I was wondering this too- did his parents have any princesses in mind for him before he became sick?

I think not. His parents were not very pro-active when it came to mates for their children.

[Alixz]

Just let me know which form of Tsarevich everyone should use and I'll follow what's requested.
And what is the difference between
"Tsarevich" and  "Tsesarevich"

In short, the difference is that while Tsarevich is old title for every son of Tsar Tsesarevich is new (XVIIIc) title invented after Tsar Peter Alexeevich accepted the title of Emperor. It's hard to said in short who had right for such title (I recently wrote six pages essay on this matter). End of quote.

I still don't know why the background on this remains purple, but here are my thoughts.

I found this difference in the spelling used for different centuries very interesting.  Tsarevich is an old title used for every son of a Tsar.  Which makes sense since it means son of the Tsar.

Tsesarevich was coined in the 18th century for Tsar Peter's son Alexei after Peter took the title of emperor.

So if we use it correctly, then Alexander IIIs sons were all tsarevich but only Nicholas was Tsesarevich.  And when Nicholas came to the throne, George remained not only the son of a tsar but now Tsesarevich or heir to the throne.

This is from a long ago post by Macedonsky on March 23, 2005.  I just finished reading the entire 32 pages of this thread.

[Alixz]

It has been almost two years since Penny said that she would share her research on George Alexandrovich.  I see that she has stopped posting.  That is too bad.  I would have liked to find out what she found out.

As I said before, I don't think that George Alexandrovich was "shadowy" at all.  There may not be large chapters dedicated to him in the books that cover Nicholas and Alexander III, but there is enough information to get a solid picture of who George was and what he did with his time.

And I agree with the poster who said that George was supposed to be on his "death bed", but was out riding a motor tryc.  He must have not been as weak as previously thought.

[Dominic_Albanese]

It has been almost two years since Penny said that she would share her research on George Alexandrovich.  I see that she has stopped posting.  That is too bad.  I would have liked to find out what she found out.

As I said before, I don't think that George Alexandrovich was "shadowy" at all.  There may not be large chapters dedicated to him in the books that cover Nicholas and Alexander III, but there is enough information to get a solid picture of who George was and what he did with his time.

And I agree with the poster who said that George was supposed to be on his "death bed", but was out riding a motor tryc.  He must have not been as weak as previously thought.

Certainly you know that Lisa's research on George is part of an upcoming book by Arturo at Eurohistory.  While I'm not entirely sure I understand all the delays I do know that in the last few months Art told me the book was now being published as a hard cover book and would be out late this year/early next.  Arturo always delivers, just sometimes not on the original schedule (read-"stuff" happens").

Part of my anxiousness for this book is Lisa's work on this Grand Duke.  Certainly, you don't expect her to publish extensively about her findings here before the book is out.  That would be rather silly now wouldn't it?

I don't agree that there is a "solid" picture of George at all.  There are snippets about him in many books, but like many of the 'lesser' Romanov's he is overshadowed by the "love story" of N&A, the war and of course the revolution.  Perhaps you'd be good enough to put together a sourced summary of what is already known as there could be more than my 300 or so book collection contains.

So be patient, or better yet, give Art a nudge to see if there is a publication update - there will be plenty of time for you to objectively review Lisa's work once the book is actually out...

dca

[Alixz]

It is always supposed that George Alexandrovich was a "shadowy" figure, but if one keeps researching, just about every book on the Romanovs, has some little tid bit about him.

In Little Mother of Russia by Coryne Hall (and I know this book is out of print and hard to find and expensive when it is found) he is mentioned quite often.

It would seem that Empress Marie did not even know ( or did not believe) he had tuberculosis as late as 1891 when he was sent on the Eastern cruise.

George A took part in a number of family trips and excursions.  After he returned home in 1891, he went with Dagmar to the south of France.

By 1894, he was living permanently in the Caucasis, but seems to have had "fun".    "Nicholas occasionally visited him and they went sleighing, played skittles and had some lively dinners.  Sometimes George was able to join his family in the Crimea, but most of the time he lived alone."

In May 1895, his health seemed to be improving and Dagmar went to the Caucasus to spend time with him and they "spent many happy days exploring the surrounding courtyside before she returned to Russia in time for the birth of Xenia's first child."

"When Nicholas became Emperor, George was proclaimed 'Grand Duke Tsarevitch' and Ataman of the Cossacks."  George was the nearest in age to Nicholas and the most intellegent."

"According to one source George was "married" to a woman whose name is unkown and whom he rejected in 1883.  A child is supposed to have been born from this union.  The same souce says that George then contracted a morganatic marriage in 1894 with a lady named Orkovska (or Orkanowska), who was born in 1873.  From this marriage he had two sons and a daughter, who were given the surname of Romanovsky. (This info is footnoted as "Information from Genealogica Gotha, p396. Provided and translated from Swedish by Ted Rosvall.)

 However unlikely this sounds, it would be nice to think that George had the consolation of some female company, if not a wife, in his lonely exile." (This is Ms Hall's comment.)

"In March 1896 Dagmar, Olga and Michael joined Georgie at La Turbie in the South of France."

In 1899, "Dagmar paid her usual visit to Georgie.  His health was deteriorating and he now spent part of most winters in Algiers.  The Grand Duke was studying the history of the Caucasus and had gathered an extensive library of books on the subject.  He was also Honorary Chairman of the Astronomical Society and paid for the construction of Russia's first high altitude observatory, which was bulit on his Abbas Touman estate and named after him.  He now found walking difficult because of his shortness of breath and, to Dagmar's dismay, had begun to ride out alone on a motor-cycle, although strictly forbidden to do so by the doctors."

"Two weeks later bad news arrived.  Georgie had been out alone on his motor-cycle and some hours later, when he failed to return, his worried staff sent out a search party.  By the time they found him it was too late.  A peasant woman had discovered him collapsed at the side of the road, blood oozing from his mouth as he struggled to breathe.  She supported him in her arms until he died.  He was just twenty-eight."

Disclaimer:  I tried to copy and type as accurately as possible the excepts from Ms. Hall's book.  Any mess ups are mine.

But IMHO, just like Alexis after him, George seems to have a "dare devil complex" and wanted as "normal" a life as he could have.

Like Prince John of England after him, he was separated from his family by his illness and even though Dagmar seems have been more attentive than Queen Mary was to PJ, it had to have been hard to be separated from everything that was going on around him.

Was his life important?  I think so.  Had he been able to stay closer to Nicholas, who knows what might have been different.

[Alixz]

Domenic,

How good to speak to you again.

I just brought my post from January of 2006 forward.  This information is only from Little Mother of Russia by Corrine Hall.

I can do some more research in the books that I have, although I would imagine that you have many more than I do.

I was wondering about Penny Wilson's research.  Not Lisa's.  I know that Lisa's chapter will be published or may have been by now.
Almost two years ago, Penny had said that she would be doing some research on George Alexandrovich, but I know that much has happened since then and we may never get the benefit of whatever information she found.