Author Topic: Withdrawal of (state) funds, early 1917  (Read 4891 times)

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Offline Erichek

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Withdrawal of (state) funds, early 1917
« on: January 21, 2006, 02:17:25 AM »
In the book The Fortune of the Tsars, Nicholas' last Minister of Finances, M. Bark, is quoted from his memoires, where he stated that Nicholas in early 1917 requested for a sizeable withdrawal from (state) funds to be delivered to him personally.
If memory serves me well, it was a couple of hundred thousand rubles. I believe the purpose was never known.

Does any one of you have any idea why Nicholas needed the money at that time? From Bark's memoires, it seems that the request was exceptional.

Was Nicholas blackmailed? Did he feel troubled times coming up, and did he want to make sure about some extra cash in his pockets? Or was he purchasing goods/services that he didn't want to show up in the books?


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Offline Tsarfan

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Re: Withdrawal of (state) funds, early 1917
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2006, 07:00:54 AM »
This is an interesting report that raises a provocative question.  I have been watching the thread since the original post to see if anyone has contributed any information or credible speculation about what this withdrawal might have signified.

But it has drawn no interest.  Instead, the "Nicky's Tatoo" thread lengthens onto its fourth page and numerous other threads about similarly inconsequential topics just grow and grow, often with prolonged strings of comments such as, "Me, too, tee-hee";  "Yeah.  Ha ha".  

This forum is starting to feel like a pajama party at Cindy's house.

Sigh . . . .

Offline ChristineM

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Re: Withdrawal of (state) funds, early 1917
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2006, 07:47:19 AM »
Like you, Tsarfan, I have to confess I have little interest in 'Nicky's Tattoo' - indeed I didn't even know he had one.   I must confess this new-found knowledge has failed to excite me sufficiently to learn more about it.

The lost fortune of the Tsars is a fascinating subject.   I read Clarke's book when it was first published and now plan to dip into it again.

I recall Nicholas drew his foreign investments back to Russia during the war in order to fund the war effort.   As well as his own he recalled those of his wife and son.   There is correspondence with George Buchanan, the British Ambassador, which testifies to this.   Funds were being carried from London into Petrograd via the diplomatic 'bag'.

It is what became of his investments on behalf of his daughters which I think has the potential to be interesting.  

In dynastic terms the value of the daughter's dowry was vital to her ability to attract and marry a suitable spouse.   I cannot believe Nicholas and Alexandra used monies set aside for this purpose to help fund the war effort.   This was too serious a family matter.   Afterall each of their daughters' entire future was coloured by this.

tsaria

Offline Mie

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Re: Withdrawal of (state) funds, early 1917
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2006, 07:49:14 AM »
I hav not never herd of this :P though I know really little about their lives but still. Maybe there is really litle about true of the legend that tsar moved money to another country.. could this be it?  ;D I'm interested now about this subject but know little so I wait and hope that someone send here their thoughts. Thanyou Erichek of this topic and hope people will send here something :P

Offline ChristineM

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Re: Withdrawal of (state) funds, early 1917
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2006, 08:18:39 AM »
Thank you Mie.   This is a very interesting subject and there has been much speculation as to what became of the massive funds Nicholas II had at his disposal.   I think it is broadly agreed that most of his, Alexandra and Alexei's personal funds were used to further their war effort.

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Offline Tsarfan

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Re: Withdrawal of (state) funds, early 1917
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2006, 08:49:33 AM »
Are there any existing records of Nicholas' personal finances in the last months before the revolution?

There has been a lengthy discussion on an older thread about the distinction between the tsar's personal assets and state funds (which was muddy at best), and I assume he and other members of the family drew from a civil list on a regular schedule.

But Erichek says Bark categorized this early 1917 withdrawal as unusual.   Given the events about to unfold, it has left me wondering if Nicholas was more aware of the storm that was about to break than has been supposed.

I have recently re-read his diary entries just before and after his abdication, and they leave me with a distinct sense that he was reporting an event that had not caught him entirely by surprise.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Tsarfan »

Offline PAVLOV

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Re: Withdrawal of (state) funds, early 1917
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2009, 08:32:17 AM »
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Nicholas withdrew a large amount of money to rescue a family member from an embarrassing financial situation. Could this be the case ?
I dont think it was related to a dowry for one of the girls. They were in the middle of a war, and I think such matters were relatively unimportant at the time, the main aim was to survive the war, not marrying off one of the daughters.
Anyway, who would the prospective suitor have been at the time ? I dont remember reading of anyone. Alexandra was against everyone anyway.   

Alixz

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Re: Withdrawal of (state) funds, early 1917
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2009, 06:54:14 PM »
How early in 1917.  Nicholas, after all was only on the throne for 2 1/2 months in 1917.  The abdication coming as it did in the middle of March.

I know that Nicholas had no idea that the abdication was coming so soon if at all.

But it is interesting to speculate on why he would have withdrawn a large amount of money at that time.

Rasputin was murdered in the end of December, perhaps Nicholas needed the money for the proper burial and proper building of a monument to Rasputin.  Alix certainly would have wanted something.

Or maybe Dmitri needed the money as he was being sent to Persia and he never had the kind of money that Felix had.

What else went on during that time?

The girls had the measles.

Offline Naslednik

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Re: Withdrawal of (state) funds, early 1917
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2009, 04:21:57 PM »
I agree with Pavlov that given the magnitude of the war, and how many people originally thought the war would be short-lived, N&A might have changed their perspective on where money should be saved or spent.  Would a dowry have been from state funds?  In any event, I think the primary expenditure for 1917 was going to be a massive push by the Russian Army, fueled by armaments from the Allies.  And given Rasputin's prophecy, I wonder if N had a dire sense of winning the war or losing his country.  In that case, budgets look a bit different. (How sad).



Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Withdrawal of (state) funds, early 1917
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2009, 09:58:56 PM »
I agree with Pavlov that given the magnitude of the war, and how many people originally thought the war would be short-lived, N&A might have changed their perspective on where money should be saved or spent.  Would a dowry have been from state funds?  In any event, I think the primary expenditure for 1917 was going to be a massive push by the Russian Army, fueled by armaments from the Allies.  And given Rasputin's prophecy, I wonder if N had a dire sense of winning the war or losing his country.  In that case, budgets look a bit different. (How sad).




What Rasputin "prophesy" do you reference? most of them are not genuine. If you mean the one about R. being murdered by the Emperor's family vs the Russian people, that one is a total fraud, created by Aaron Simanovitch, his secretary years after the fact to sell his tawdry fiction book.

A close reading of Clarke shows that Bark was not the most reliable of sources, sadly.