Alexandra's Russian.

[Mashka-Morgan]

  
Lexi,
I'm terribly sorry---it's just that...... I didn't want to embarrass you--mine was addressed as "Nana", as a respectable New Englander should be!
Now, can we get back to aggravating others with our spelling corrections, please?

[Finelly]

AlexP -

Calling women trolls is inappropriate, and not just on this board.

All name-calling is opinion.  It is the type of opinion that people should refrain from, and not just on this board.

I was not trying to be humorous.  My great grandmother was a dentist.  She made bombs for Trotsky.  She hired a Frauleina to serve the family.  Perhaps it was different for Jewish families and that is why you didn't quite understand what I was writing.
Or perhaps you were not aware of anti-German sentiment when WWII started.

May I suggest that you offer an apology to Mashka and Lexi.  It is the gentlemanly thing to do.  

[lexi4]

 
Lexi,
I'm terribly sorry---it's just that I didn't want to embarrass you--mine was addressed as "Nana", as a respectable New Englander should be.
Now, can we get back to antagonizing others with our spelling corrections, please?

Mashka,
You did not embarrass me. I am not sure what you are talking about. Did I offend you? I certainly hope not as I find you delightful

[Mashka-Morgan]

 
Finelly,
Thank you for the lovely gesture, but, you know---I just never acknowledge unchivalrous men. My sainted mother taught me to consider them as "insects under glass", and only to observe their behavior from a lofty distance, never to sully myself!
M-M.

[lexi4]

Finelly,
Thank you for the lovely gesture, but, you know---I just never acknowledge unchivalrous men. My sainted mother taught me to consider them as "insects under glass", and only to observe their behavior from a lofty distance, never to sully myself!
M-M.

She taught you well.

[Mashka-Morgan]

Mashka,
You did not embarrass me. I am not sure what you are talking about. Did I offend you? I certainly hope not as I find you delightful

Lexi,
Of course you didn't offend me! I just always try to err on the side of courtesy and decorum, and never mention that one has referred to one's Nana in a way that some might consider declasse'.
I personally never discriminate but I realize many people, especially considering differences in culture, may  be very sensitive to  such an inference as my mention of  my "Nana".

BTW----did you know I am a psychiatric professional? In other words, I actually  hold the keys to the 'asylum' if one still uses such a term.  I adore  my work with patients suffering from psychosis. The patients who are the most compassionate usually have schizophrenia, I suppose because they truly understand the suffering of others. I consider this work a true "calling"! Not easy  and few people have the intestinal fortitude to do it  (pardon my Manahan pun), but as my Nana would have said about alleviating the suffering of the innocent, "What would the Father do?"
Much fondness,
M.  

[lexi4]

Lexi,
Of course you didn't offend me! I just always try to err on the side of modesty and decorum, and never mention that one has referred to one's Nana in a way that some might consider declasse'
I personally never discriminate but I realize many people, especially considering differences in culture, may  be very sensitive to  such an inference as my reference to my "Nana".
BTW----did you know I am a psychiatric professional? I adore  my work with persons suffering from psychosis. I consider it a true "calling"! Not easy, and few people have the intestinal fortitude to do so (pardon my Manahan pun), but as my Nana would have said about alleviating the suffering of the innocent, "What would the Father do?"
Much fondness,
M.

I did not know that. I can see that now that I recall some of your posts. It is a calling and of course, your Nana is right. If you are interested, I will tell you abot mine in a pm

[Finelly]

Among well bred people a mutual deference is affected, contempt for others is disguised; authority concealed; attention given to each in his turn; and an easy stream of conversation maintained without vehemence, without interruption, without eagerness for victory, and without any airs of superiority.     David Hume

My great grandmother hired a lady in waiting.  In Russia, this was called a Frauleina.  The problem was that when WWII started, people interpreted this to mean that she was German, so she had to go.

Not all Frauleinas were ladies in waiting to the royal family.  It was a term of art.  Familiar even to the non-nobility in many cases.  

As for the term "internet troll", perhaps you are not aware of the other nuances of the term.  To call a woman a troll is one of the greatest insults.  You would be wise to apologize to any woman to whom you have addressed this term.  It implies certain mental characteristics, certain physical characteristics, and certain sexual attributes.  The fact that the word "internet" is added before the word "troll" does not diminish the implication.  

It is of interest to me that you do not appear to understand the humor, the passion, and the interest of the people on this board.  People from all walks of life come here to chat, have fun, learn, and share.  They are not all interested in writing a dissertation on any topic related to the Romanovs, nor do they behave with affection to people who appear to be condescending, patronizing, or intellectually snobbish.  In fact, some of the funniest, most light-hearted people here are extremely knowledgeable - more than you or I - and outstandingly intelligent - more than you or I - people.  Manners.  

[lexi4]

An Internet troll...you are not obviously not "au courant" as to what this means.

An Internet troll is a poster who makes inflammatory, silly, ridiculous little postings, devoid of any real meaning, for the sole purpose of aggravating of other postings.  These postings are devoid of any merit or of any intellectual content.

And that is the received definition for "Internet troll".  And in my judgment, that is what that posting was and remains.

Oh, we well know what it means. What you don't get, is that to call anyone a troll is unacceptable. It has a negative connotation. Therefore, it is considered offensive. Mashka saw the humor in Finelly's remarks. You did not. That is ok. We don't all see humor in the same way. No need for name calling.




Actually, in my own family from St. Petersburg, the prevailing sentiment, which I deplored, was one of antisemitism.  Many of the "dvoriatvso" were vicious and rapid antisemites.  It was truly an uneducated opinion.  My grandfather used to say that the Revolution was well....started...by one group of people (Lenin, Trostky, Sverdlov, Dzherskiny, etc.) but those were the opinions of only one class of people at that point in history, and surely not mine....an opinion, which as an educated person I cannot share.

Why in the world would you bring up antisemitism? It pertains to nothing discussed on this thread. Is this a silly, inflammatory remark devoid of meaning? Just asking? I don't understand why you posted it.


I am telling you this because I was not aware of antiGerman feeling when World War II broke out.  When the Germans occupied Paris, my father, who was than a Russian emigre living in Paris, enrolled voluntarily in Vlassov's army and was named a "Lieutenant-General" because of his name and background and went to Russia to with the Legion to free Russia.  He survived the meltdown of the Army.



So let's try to be more serious.

And thank you for the postings.

But I find it hard to fathom that your family hired a Russian "frauleina" to be its governess.  I can personally account for the whereabouts of most of the "Frauelinas" who had been in service to the Empress, and I am unaware of any who entered such a service.

I will take your suggestion under consideration.  Might I offer you one?

Was it a Russian Frauelina, meaning a Lady-in-Waiting to the Empress, or was it a German miss?

This could be interesting and paradoxical to the extreme.
To me, this makes no difference at all.

 

[Mashka-Morgan]

 
Oh Finelly! J'adore Hume! So did my Nana!

And, BTW Lexi----was your grandma also a Trotskyite ?
The name sounds vaguely Finnish....hmm.

[Finelly]

Correct, Alex.  I speak fluent French, English, Spanish, Hebrew, Swedish, a smattering of Romanian, and fairly decent Italian.  I do not know any Russian.

I do know that just as your family has a lot of lore, so does mine.  In my family, the deal is this:  Genteel families had frauleinas.  A frauleina may have STARTED as a term to refer to a specific type of attendant to the Tsarina.  However, it extended down thru the other classes and by the time of, let's say, 1925, emigres used it, at least Jewish ones did, in America, to refer to Russian, non-Jewish employees of a certain type in the family.  A maid was a maid.  A cook was a cook.  A Frauleina was a lady's attendant.  

We always thought it was rather absurd for socialists like my grandparents to have such a thing in the family, but I think it was a form of revenge for them, in a quirky little way......

And, in a quirky little way, it worked.  Because, of course, my grandparents helped to overthrow the society in which a Frauleina would have been proud to live.  (My great grandmother MADE bombs.  She didn't really throw them, by the way. )

It was an interesting time in history.  As my people like to say:  "They tried to kill us.  We won.  Let's eat."

[Mashka-Morgan]

 
Jiminy Crickets, Lexi!
This  "Command of the Russian Language " topic gets more attention  than......the breastfeeding one.

BTW, my Nana taught me to use the more modest term, 'nursing' (her name was Catherine, in case you were wondering . And gosh,  she only played mahjongg and made tea, not bombs).
But of course, when in Rome---I mean... Austin! 'Breastfeeding' it is, then.
P.S. I have unending regard for Tsarina Alexandra's care for her children in every way. She was a true model of motherhood.  

[Finelly]

And, BTW Lexi----was your grandma also a Trotskyite ?
The name sounds vaguely Finnish....hmm.

No, it's definately not Finnish.  My family owns an island in Finland so I'm quite familiar with the common surnames.  

I'm sure that Lexi's grandma was of a higher, more civilized culture than any of us who have European origins.

[AlexP]

Dear FormAdm,

Could you please either lock this thread or change its title?

It started out as an original discussion of the Empress's abilities in the Russian-language...

And it has been nearly hijacked since the beginning with a long-series of name-calling, meaningless little posts that have contributed nothing to the original, but nothing at all, to my original posting.

I will also write you privately on this.

Thank you.

A.A.

[Finelly]

All one has to do to redirect a thread back to its original topic is to politely suggest it on the thread itself.

Now, the original topic was the Empress' command of the Russian language.  The assertion is that she did not speak Russian well, and that her French pronunciation was not good, given her inability to use certain vowel sounds.

This is not news.  Every biography of Alexandra, plus comments by other Imperial family members indicate that she never mastered the Russian language.  She did not need to, as the family spoke in a mixture of French, English, German, and Russian.  As one of her great nieces pointed out, the family method of communication was a polyglot - inserting words that made sense to them in any language, so that most sentences were a mixture of at least two languages, if not three or four.  This is verified in Alexandra's own correspondence and diaries - one can assume she spoke the same way.

As for accent, some people are able to learn an accent along with a language, and some are not.  It appears to be genetic.  While some people may look down on those who do not adopt a given accent, others simply appreciate the attempt to communicate and enjoy the exchange.