Author Topic: Re: Re: Photos of Nicholas II #3  (Read 105818 times)

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helenazar

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Re: Re: Photos of Nicholas II #3
« on: October 11, 2005, 08:13:12 PM »
What's interesting to me is that most Russian people (living in Russia) don't seem to have as strong feelings of hate towards Lenin as those who are either not Russian or Russian but living abroad. They sort of take the whole thing in stride and approach it with a sense of humor even. For example, there are many jokes that Russian people tell to each other having to do with Lenin et al, and with the Soviet era leaders. For another example, you often see cartoons/comics or things like this:
- in the Red Square and everyone thinks it's hilarious. Very few people in Russia go  around saying "we hate Lenin", at least I never heard anyone say that, and I have spoken to many many Russian people in Russia. They honestly don't seem to blame Lenin, at least not him alone. IMHO, to blame Lenin alone, or any other person, would be completely oversimplfying the whole thing... Many are to blame, no one is solely responsible. Not to say they are not responsible at all, but the way people try to make it sound, Lenin as a "devil incarnate" himself! Come on. ..

I know that some of the things that happened are nothing to laugh about, but in a way I think it is more healthy to have a sense of humor about it, and even a certain pragmatism, than incubating such hatred about something that cannot be changed at this point.  Why not look forward, without forgetting what happened and trying to make sure nothing like this ever happens again?

Anyway, this is my very own opinion being expressed, so please don't get upset if you think differently!

helenazar

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Re: Re: Photos of Nicholas II #3
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2005, 09:22:19 AM »
Quote

Did you notice these fellows on your last trip?  I think the photos are delightful!  ;D Lenin enjoys a quick smoke with Nicky and Marx! Brilliant!
rs


R, this was my trip last year, in 2004. I think I posted at least one of these images somewhere else already, and told that little funny story about the Lenin iimpersonator. Basically all of the "imperonators" were there to take photos with the tourists for money, and they were all amazingly real-looking. But they were also all drunk as skunks! So "Lenin" was chasing young girls around yelling out : "Come over here and take a picture with me, or else I won't take you into the bright future of communism with me!" It was absolutely hysterical and I wish I had it on tape!

Quote
I agree rskkiya - one can't help but smile at Helen's amazing images. They look quite realistic!  :D ;)


I thought so too!  :D I suppose that this type of humor is one of the ways that the Russian people deal with their sad sad history and their sad present situation too - a defense mechanism if you will. As they say, if you don't laugh you will have to cry...

Offline londo954

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Re: Re: Photos of Nicholas II #3
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2005, 10:00:20 AM »
There is one good thing that Lenin did...he issued orders immediately followingt the revolution that all the palaces and there contents be preserved as historical monuments saving them from possible destruction adn allowing us to enjoy them today. It was Stalin and his government that began to sell off the treasures!!!

helenazar

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Re: Re: Photos of Nicholas II #3
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2005, 01:57:21 PM »
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There is one good thing that Lenin did...he issued orders immediately followingt the revolution that all the palaces and there contents be preserved as historical monuments saving them from possible destruction adn allowing us to enjoy them today. It was Stalin and his government that began to sell off the treasures!!!


That's a good point, Londo... He may have been many things - but Lenin did understand the value of preserving historical artifacts for the future generations, during the time when many wanted them all destroyed! Stalin was another story of course.

helenrappaport

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Re: Re: Photos of Nicholas II #3
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2007, 01:49:11 PM »
Dear Friends

Firstly, I am new to the list and,I cannot tell you how valuable and interesting I am finding the many discussions running on it and the fantastic combined knowledge of all those who contribute.  So thank you.

 I have a question - my first -  relating to Alferev's book, 'Pis'ma Tsarskoi Sem'i iz Zatocheniya', published in 1974 by the Holy Trinity Monastery, Jordanville, USA.

Opposite page 388 is a photograph of Nicholas, said to be the last taken of him, purportedly at Ekaterinburg.  He is sitting in Alexandra's wheelchair at a table in what appears to be their bedroom in the Ipatiev House. 

Is this authentic  and if so does anyone know where it is now? If it is then I am assuming it was taken when the tsar had his bad attack of haemorrhoids and took to his bed for several days -  from June 6th.

But we know, of course, that all the Romanovs' camera equipment was confiscated at the Ipatiev House and they weren't allowed to take any photos.  So then I thought - the obvious person might be Commandant Yurovsky who was a chemist and a photographer and had his own photographic studio in town.  But if this was taken in June then it's before Yurovsky took over from Avdeev - which was 4 July. So I was wondering if anyone out there had any ideas or knew anything at all about the provenance.  Sorry I don't have the means to scan and post it as I could only consult in the library. But maybe somebody else has the book and can??

This leads me to my other obvious question - and forgive me if it has been raised before, but I can't be the only person wondering if Yurovsky ever took any photos - particularly of the murder scene.  there must have been a considerable temptation to do so. I've read about the bogus photo of the bodies wrapped in white sheets that turned up in an obscure American book - far too clean and neat for bullet and bayonet ridden bodies and would have been soaked in blood surely?  So has anyone any thoughts on whether Yurovsky did take any photos of the family in the Ipatiev House.  Thanks a lot, Helen Oxford, UK

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Re: Photos of Nicholas II #3
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2007, 02:12:22 PM »
Opposite page 388 is a photograph of Nicholas, said to be the last taken of him, purportedly at Ekaterinburg.  He is sitting in Alexandra's wheelchair at a table in what appears to be their bedroom in the Ipatiev House. 

That is incorrectly labled. The photo is probably the one taken in 1900 in Livadia when Nicholas was ill, I believe with typhoid. I have a copy of that photo and will post it later tonight for you to verify that we're talking about the same picture.

You're absolutely correct about the imperial family's cameras being confiscated in Yekaterinburg. No photos of the family are known to exist after the children's transfer from Tobolsk via the steamship Rus.
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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Re: Photos of Nicholas II #3
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2007, 08:37:30 PM »
I ended up finding TWO photos of Nicholas in the wheelchair in 1900:



(It was indeed typhoid, by the way.)
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Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Re: Photos of Nicholas II #3
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2007, 10:21:03 PM »
Yes, Sarushka. And the first one of these pics was shown in the documentary "Nicholas and Alexandra...Russia; the Missing Years". It was explained that the pic was taken when Nicholas II had typhoidea, then, they showed another of Tatiana in her bed when she had the same disease...

But by the way...Which one was the REAL Nicky's last pic?  ???

Oh...and thank you for the second photo. I'd never saw it!  ;)

RealAnastasia.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Re: Photos of Nicholas II #3
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2007, 10:35:24 PM »
But by the way...Which one was the REAL Nicky's last pic?  ???

I think it's virtually impossible to know. None of the photos from Tobolsk appear to be dated specifically enough to pinpoint which is officially his last. And who knows how many Tobolsk photos of the IF might still be unpublished?
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Offline Belochka

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Re: Re: Photos of Nicholas II #3
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2007, 10:41:09 PM »
This leads me to my other obvious question - and forgive me if it has been raised before, but I can't be the only person wondering if Yurovsky ever took any photos - particularly of the murder scene.  there must have been a considerable temptation to do so. I've read about the bogus photo of the bodies wrapped in white sheets that turned up in an obscure American book - far too clean and neat for bullet and bayonet ridden bodies and would have been soaked in blood surely?  So has anyone any thoughts on whether Yurovsky did take any photos of the family in the Ipatiev House.  Thanks a lot, Helen Oxford, UK

Welcome to the forum Helen,

Personally I believe that Yurovski would not have missed such an opportunity and did indeed take photographs as evidence that the task was successfully completed. The film would have been conveyed to Moscow by Yurovski and is probably preserved in the secret presidential archive that is rarely accessible at this time to public researchers.

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Offline ChristineM

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Re: Re: Photos of Nicholas II #3
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2007, 05:19:43 AM »
The last moving film known to be shot of the Imperial Family was in October 1916 on the River Dneiper.

tsaria

helenrappaport

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Re: Re: Photos of Nicholas II #3
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2007, 12:09:16 PM »
My thanks to everyone for clearing up the mislabelling of the Nicholas photo so rpomptly and efficiently. Helen

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Re: Photos of Nicholas II #3
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2007, 06:23:24 PM »
I share Belochka opinion. I think that there would be some new pics hidden in Russian Archives, and that they were not yet released to the public. However, I think that they will be known. When? I don't know, but all things ends by being known by the people.

When I was speaking about "Nicholas II last photo", I was referring to the KNOWN ones...But yes, it would be very hard to know which one was really "the last one".

RealAnastasia.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Re: Photos of Nicholas II #3
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2007, 06:54:52 PM »
I share Belochka opinion. I think that there would be some new pics hidden in Russian Archives, and that they were not yet released to the public. However, I think that they will be known. When? I don't know, but all things ends by being known by the people.
RealAnastasia.

I doubt that the death photos will be published for broad consumption anytime soon. They would cause too much outrage and offense to the living as to what the bolsheviks did to the Imperial Family - especially against all the children.

At the same time from a forensic viewpoint - perhaps one day.

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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Re: Photos of Nicholas II #3
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2007, 08:55:51 PM »
When I was speaking about "Nicholas II last photo", I was referring to the KNOWN ones...But yes, it would be very hard to know which one was really "the last one".

It is known that the Bolsheviks in Yekaterinburg made mug-style photos of the IF for identification purposes. Perhaps these -- if they still exist -- would be the last photos?
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