Author Topic: Olga's pistol  (Read 50097 times)

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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Olga's pistol
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2011, 09:30:07 AM »
If the Tsar taught Olga to shoot a gun, how no one else noted it in their memoirs. Spiridovitch, for instance, would have known and seen it would he?
That's a good point. He may have simply given it to her. The information was in the  Sokolov dossier that Stalin had...but who told Sokolov?

Or it may be an indication that the gun was given to her after the start of the revolution.
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Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Olga's pistol
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2011, 08:52:20 PM »
It's said Olga  after her recovery from the measles spent time with her father in his study discussing what went  wrong.
That would be a good time and place if he did indeed gave her a pistol   after the Feb revolution...frankly I can see her ask him for it as he ponders what to do with it .... if one had been hidden away or was just there... What to do with it would be a question because just showing it to the guard  in order to turn it in, would cause a good deal of mayhem, and no doubt a search generally ... Since using it would not be a question, lessons would not be needed...I wonder if  it was even loaded?  ..but now I'm weaving a story

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Re: Olga's pistol
« Reply #47 on: August 28, 2011, 08:44:39 PM »
Not unlikely. But if it could be concealed in a boot - how many rounds could such a small gun have realistically held?? Not much use really most likely even if it had remained with her.

Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Olga's pistol
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2011, 09:08:04 PM »
Indeed. I think the benefit was psychological . It could not have a practical use...a modern assault rifle couldn't hold enough rounds to be of use. Its benefit  was a feeling in the hand , a thought in  the mind rather ,  than of use. What we find  comforting isn't always practical . I think I would find it comforting in that situation....even knowing it would never  be used...but it was there. How much better  that is than being the same fix without it . It was  a talisman of freedom and self determination even as they were lost in real terms . If indeed the story is true. But the detail that Olga gave it up  only when  Colonel  Kobylinsky pleaded with her to  do so , rings true . It  seems a detail a made up story would not  have .   

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Offline Sunny

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Re: Olga's pistol
« Reply #49 on: August 29, 2011, 06:21:46 AM »
Indeed. I think the benefit was psychological

Yes, i agree. A pistol like that (whose bullets where smaller than a 22) can hurt only if you use it on a person who's very near to you, something like a gladius, the short sword ancient roman soldiers used in battle, which was meant to be only used in a hand - to - hand fight. If you've read Millennium trilogy, by Larsson, you probably know there's a carachter who is shot in his head by a Browning but not only survives, but after healings, has no further problems - he was shot from far away.
So, i agree - the pistol was not meant to be a real protection, but a psychological one. A sort of placebo.
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Offline clockworkgirl21

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Re: Olga's pistol
« Reply #50 on: September 01, 2011, 03:11:48 PM »
If it's true Olga was given a gun, I agree it was probably just for her own peace of mind. TMA didn't seem to have the same problems with anxiety as Olga did, but they were just as likely to be assaulted, so why not give them all guns if it was for protection? Olga would have a more difficult time protecting all 4 of them with just one small gun. But it's also true that hiding 4 guns would be a lot more trouble than just one. Also, why did Nicholas tell Kobylinsky anyway? 

As for Olga having the gun during the execution, I doubt it would have made a difference. One young woman, even with a pistol, wouldn't stand a chance against a dozen men trained to fire weapons.

Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Olga's pistol
« Reply #51 on: September 01, 2011, 06:51:54 PM »
Indeed and by the time Kobylinsky asked Olga to give the pistol  up,  it was posing  a far greater threat to the family than any use it could have had....even as a comfort. The time for such games was at an end. The best possible out come at that point happened:  The gun is given to Kobylinsky, who cared for the family and who would not use the discovery of a  gun as a reason to tear the family's rooms apart at the very least ...almost any other means of discovery and confinstation would have done so and more . lt would  not have gone well if the gun was found in  Olga's things when they were searched upon  arrival in Yekaterinburg. Of course things  didn't go well  any case, but they didn't know that for certain . What was certain, is the gun posed a great danger to the family at this point. The family was grateful to Kobylinsky for his months of kindness. Olga could not lightly shut her ears to Kobylinsky's   reasoning  and his  emotional appeal and she  was moved to give up the gun. When Olga received it from her father was an important moment and so was when she gave it over. If Nicholas told Kobylinsky about it , it could be a case where  he realized the need for  its removable...but didn't want to ask  his daughter to give it back...and what would he do with it? It had to go into Kobylinsky's keeping anyway.

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Offline Sunny

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Re: Olga's pistol
« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2011, 01:53:23 AM »
I have a question about when she "gave" Kobilinskij the gun.
Kob. was dismissed on 28 april/11 May. Rodionov arrived only 3 days later, 1/14 May. I haven't found wether Kobilinskij remained unofficially till the 1/14... but anyway: so we have to assume Olga gave the gun BEFORE 11 May or in those 3 days between Kob's dismissal and Rodionov arrive.
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Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Olga's pistol
« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2011, 12:22:41 PM »
good detective work Sunny! ...actually if Nicholas telling Kobylinsky bout the gun  when Kobylinsky went to Olga...( and I would think it would be, ) ...then it would have to before even Nicholas left Tobolsk. Kobylinsky would treat this info like hearing of a lighted fuse...and would I believe, act instantly to get the gun , this ticking time bomb, out of the family's hands.

"Give my love to all who remember me."

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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Olga's pistol
« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2011, 03:33:33 PM »
...actually if Nicholas telling Kobylinsky bout the gun  when Kobylinsky went to Olga...( and I would think it would be, ) ...then it would have to before even Nicholas left Tobolsk.

I disagree. If Nicholas thought it necessary for Olga to give up her pistol prior to his departure for Ekaterinburg, why wouldn't he have asked her for it himself instead of deferring to Kobylinsky? IMO, Olga would have been much more receptive to this request coming from her father than from Kobylinsky, no matter how sympathetic he may have been.
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Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Olga's pistol
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2011, 10:08:10 PM »
Didn't Nicholas have a habit of letting others impart unpleasant information and not liking confrontation....family members not excluded. I actually think it shows a respect for Olga....allowing her to handle the situation in her own way with  Kobylinsky and without being told what to like a child. She decides to hand over the gun , she isn't told to by either men. That is  due Kobylinsky's kindness as well, when he pleads his case and does not order her to hand it over  , as he well could have . In this way the benefits of the gun remain intact even as the gun is given up. ( that is ,a a sense of self determination remains  ) In any case the story says  Kobylinsky went to Olga to retrieve the gun and not her father. Are you saying  Kobylinsky learned of it another way once Nicholas was gone and that is why he went to Olga about it instead of Nicholas?

If Nichloas told him,  then I can see  Kobylinsky  saying it must be put in his keeping. He knew what such a discovery by someone else would mean. His health was being ruined by trying to keep the guards calm, a moment to moment  challenge as it was .  Nicholas hesitates about what to do,  Kobylinsky says, " Sir, I will see to this". It has to go to Kobylinsky in any case. Nicholas looks at him and nods. Whether Nicholas told  Kobylinsky because he felt the gun was now a danger...or he had come to see  Kobylinsky as a something like  Dr. Botkin  figure and simply confided in him is an interesting topic . I rather think it was the increasing danger the  possession of the gun posed and the problem of what to do with it. Getting the gun  from Olga was only half the problem.  Kobylinsky seeing to it was the answer

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Olga's pistol
« Reply #56 on: September 03, 2011, 08:06:13 AM »
The way I see it, it's more likely that Nicholas felt compelled to clue Kobylinsky in after the kerfuffle with Aleksei's toy rifle at the AP. That incident showed Nicholas how the guards would react to their being armed, as well as illustrating Kobylinsky's sympathy for the family. Although Nicholas isn't known for his foresight, I have a hard time imagining that he would not have at least briefly reconsidered his decision to arm Olga after seeing the Second Regiment throw such a fit over a toy rifle. The wisest (and also characteristically passive) thing to do would be to confide in Kobylinsky and let him decide when/if it was appropriate to confiscate the pistol.

If you're curious about how I imagine the actual relinquishment of the gun playing out, see chapter 35 of The Lost Crown.
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Offline Sunny

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Re: Olga's pistol
« Reply #57 on: September 04, 2011, 06:20:31 AM »
Quote
If you're curious about how I imagine the actual relinquishment of the gun playing out, see chapter 35 of The Lost Crown.[/quote

It's what i've done indeed, Sarah; thank you. I was inly wondering wether there's some historical sureness about it, of wether it is only speculation. I mean: the one in The lost crown is your personal view, but since i'm dealing with the "gun problem" myself, i just wished to have my ideas clearer to make up my own view; of course not simply yours, or i'm going to copy you - that would be unaccetble for me, even if i think your novel is one of the best r ones one can find. Hope i've well made me understood!
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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Olga's pistol
« Reply #58 on: September 04, 2011, 09:10:36 AM »
I was inly wondering wether there's some historical sureness about it, of wether it is only speculation. I mean: the one in The lost crown is your personal view, but since i'm dealing with the "gun problem" myself, i just wished to have my ideas clearer to make up my own view; of course not simply yours, or i'm going to copy you - that would be unaccetble for me, even if i think your novel is one of the best r ones one can find. Hope i've well made me understood!

It's speculation.

Details regarding Olga's gun are sketchy at best. This is Bob's original quote, and it's all the information we have:

Once when I met Vladimir Soloviev, the Attorney General of Russia and the head of the committee on the investigation of the remains he showed me the Sokolov dossier that Stalin had - I have mentioned that meeting before.  Afterwards we had a long talk about what he had found in his research through unpublished materials.  I asked him if he could tell me somethings he had learned about the members of the family that surprized him.  One thing he told me was the story of the small gun Olga carried.  He said, if I remember correctly but this could be wrong, she had it in her boot and she had been given the gun by her father.  He said Koblynski begged Olga to give it to him in Tobolsk.  Later I found this in writing - but I haven't been able to relocate it.

I also thought I'd seen this story confirmed in writing elsewhere, but I've never been able to relocate it either. Kobylinsky does not mention it in the deposition he made for Robert Wilton's Last Days of the Romanovs.
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Offline Sunny

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Re: Olga's pistol
« Reply #59 on: September 04, 2011, 10:00:27 AM »
Thanks sarah. Me too, i'm quite sure i've read about the pistol elsewhere, when i didn't know this site, so is another source; but i can't find it now, either. So, i'll try to guess and speculate on my own!
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