Author Topic: Were the Grand Duchesses raped?  (Read 78107 times)

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Offline Valmont

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Re: Were the Grand Duchesses raped?
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2004, 03:52:41 PM »
The thing here is that we can read any  series of events that actually happened, and  the people who published have avidence to back up what they found, and felt they had a dutty to let other to know what they had found, and we can Infere anything as wild as our imagination from those events we are reading, but We cannot ignore Human behavior. I must agree with Rodger. NOTHING would have been more as a Trophey to one of the guards, as having sexually asalted one of the GD. And  they would proudly talked about it  until the end of their days, same as Peter Ermakov, who until his dying day claimed he had burned the bodies and he himself had cast the ashes to the wind....

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Arturo Vega-Llausás
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Valmont »
Arturo Vega-Llausás

Offline BobAtchison

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Re: Were the Grand Duchesses raped?
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2004, 06:09:14 PM »
I do not believe the Grand Duchesses were raped - as far as I am concerned there is NO EVIDENCE to support this.  I cannot say this more strongly.

I am sorry that this speculation has gone to the extremes it has.  I am worried that this false conclusion is about to become 'fact' for many people simply because speculation along these lines has appeared in a book.

It did not happen.  They were not raped.  Also, the entire family was not raped in Yekaterinburg as has appeared in other books.  I don't understand why these false rape stories get so much attention.

I have been told my Penny and Greg that they don't believe they were raped so I hope the readers are misunderstanding these passages...

Bob

AnastasiaFan

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Re: Were the Grand Duchesses raped?
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2004, 09:16:31 PM »
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I do not believe the Grand Duchesses were raped - as far as I am concerned there is NO EVIDENCE to support this.  I cannot say this more strongly.

I am sorry that this speculation has gone to the extremes it has.  


I AGREE!!!!!!!!

Offline ptitchka

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Re: Were the Grand Duchesses raped?
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2004, 10:29:54 PM »
I earnestly request that this thread and certain others as controversial be either closed or placed in their own section.  I agree with Bob and AnastasiaFan that mere speculation has been blown way out of proportion.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Were the Grand Duchesses raped?
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2004, 11:40:26 PM »
With respect Pravoslavnaya threads should not be closed (censored) because someone may believe that the content is possibly "controversial" or distastful.

We have the freedom to read or participate on any thread which is of interest to us.

The choice is entirely yours whether you open this thread or not.

???


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Offline borgia

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Re: Were the Grand Duchesses raped?
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2004, 01:22:07 AM »
To me,all this topic of talk shows that, we all really do care for our OTMA.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Were the Grand Duchesses raped?
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2004, 01:45:01 AM »
Yes borgia its a nice way to look at it.

;)


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Re: Were the Grand Duchesses raped?
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2004, 02:41:01 PM »
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I agree with Bob and AnastasiaFan that mere speculation has been blown way out of proportion.


I find it so sad that so many people now believe, or at least speculate, that the girls were raped.  :'(

Offline Mark_Byron

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Re: Were the Grand Duchesses raped?
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2004, 10:25:09 PM »
Well, let me begin by saying Greg and Penny's book was so needed to clarify the Imperial familys last months of captivity-their decent to hell, so to speak. They created a piece of work that will be read for many years to come. It is a sensitive premise brought to fruition. Hard to read at times? Yes. But if you really want to know what the Imperial family felt and went through, it can be hard sometimes to ponder what people can do to each other during a war and a revolution. I DON"T think any thing physical happened to the Grand duchesses' during their Rus trip. I DO think they were subjected to taunting and disgusting treatment from the guards, something they had never experienced before.  Basically coming face to face with the hatred the revolutionaries had for them.  It's not sad to discuss this, it's just a part of trying to understand and feel what it was that they went through.

Offline Olga

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Re: Were the Grand Duchesses raped?
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2004, 04:19:16 AM »
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I find it so sad that so many people now believe, or at least speculate, that the girls were raped.  :'(


With respect Anastasia, many parts of history are unpleasant and messy. This is true of the story of the Romanovs, especially towards the end. Just because one person or more finds the topic of this conversation uncomfortable, it does not mean the speculation should be censored. As someone said before, rape can, and does happen, no matter what age, gender or social status the victim holds. I think there is a chance that that OTA Nikolaevna were subjected to some kind of abuse, rape or not. By not talking about something uncomfortable does not mean it will go away.

Offline Merrique

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Re: Were the Grand Duchesses raped?
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2004, 06:52:50 AM »
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With respect Anastasia, many parts of history are unpleasant and messy. This is true of the story of the Romanovs, especially towards the end. Just because one person or more finds the topic of this conversation uncomfortable, it does not mean the speculation should be censored. As someone said before, rape can, and does happen, no matter what age, gender or social status the victim holds. I think there is a chance that that OTA Nikolaevna were subjected to some kind of abuse, rape or not. By not talking about something uncomfortable does not mean it will go away.


I agree with Olga on this.Just because some of us think this subject is unpleasant to discuss dones't mean we shouldn't talk about it.It is part of history and I think it's something we can learn from.

History is such a brutal teacher,showing us the many things we are capable of inflicting on our fellow man.It can be so hard to understand why we humans do the things we do.But thats why history is there.To know and to understand so we don't make the same mistakes again.

That being said I do believe something happened to the girls.I don't however think they were raped.But I do believe some kind of abuse happened to them whether it be pyhsical or mental,and those can be almost as bad as rape.
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Offline BobAtchison

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Re: Were the Grand Duchesses raped?
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2004, 09:42:15 AM »
Can you imagine the strain they were under?  Any day it could happen to you, your siblings as well as your parents.  Don't forget hundreds of their friends were being killed at the time and they knew it... officers murdered...

Since December 1916 on I think they knew it was just a matter of time before their mother and father would be killed....

What awful times - that they were able to bear it all is a testimony to their strength and love for one another.

Bob


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Re: Were the Grand Duchesses raped?
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2004, 02:12:28 PM »
Quote
This is true of the story of the Romanovs, especially towards the end.


I really don't believe it is, though. There is a lot I didn't buy into, espeially that Yurovsky was "sorry" for what he did or that Anastasia really survived. The only time I am willing to put any real trust into the characteristics of the Imperial Family and what may or may not have happened to them is when someone they actually knew well writes about them (letters, diaries, books, etc). That said, I am willing to believe that perhaps something happened on the Rus, but that is only because, as I recall, Gilliard is the one who wrote something about it. He knew them, so I am more willing to believe him. But as has been stated over and over again, there is no evidence of rape. It's not that I find it horrible to think about (though it is a horrible thing) there is just no evidence of it, so I don't understand why people keep bringing it up and questioning whether or not it happened. And besides, I am really not that interested in the so-called "truth" of the Imperial Family's deaths or the events leading up to it. The point is they died, and nothing is going to change that fact. What I am interested in is their normal LIVES prior to the Revolution, which is why I just ordered two new books that will talk and show more about them..........."The Camera and the Tsars" and "The Romanovs and Mr. Gibbes." I am itching for them to hurry up and arrive, especially the latter.  :)

Offline DeAnochka

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Re: Were the Grand Duchesses raped?
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2004, 02:45:14 PM »
I had no idea that my post would spark so much controversy among boardmembers. I'm sorry that I presented the question in such a blunt manner. I didn't really take into consideration the sensitive nature of the subject. If this thread could, in any possible way, shed new light on someone's opinons on the events that occured during the Family's captivity, then I consider it worth posting.

God bless our beloved girls. We know that they're in a better place now. No one can hurt them anymore.

Dee

Offline Louise

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Re: Were the Grand Duchesses raped?
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2004, 03:03:50 PM »
Rape is a controversial subject matter and I"m not surprised it raised a few comments.

However after reading FOTR's I can see why the assumption is there. The night in question that Gilliard talks about caused many people on this board to be shaken with the possibilty of horrendous actions towards the young women.  

The GD's were very protected, isolated and sheltered from the rough reality of life, and being thrown into the situation they found themselves in would be horrifing enough for them. What really happened that night may never be fully known, but had they been raped, then I'm sure the sorid details would have emerged by now.

How alone, how vulnerable those poor girls were on the Rus, and how abandoned and frightened they must of have without their parents to protect them.

As difficult a suject as rape is,  I think it best that this incident be discussed, the issue raised and then resolved so the rumours, the wondering of what happened is laid to rest.




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