Author Topic: Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 2  (Read 61098 times)

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Offline AGRBear

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I haven't read the old thread Anna Anderson and Anastasia thread in some time.  I thought I'd pull over something Greg Wilson posted.  Since the thread is locked down, go to page 6...

http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=anastasia;action=display;num=1075191962;start=125

Greg King's post #132:

>>I suggest you check Peter's book on this issue-Anastasia Manahan had extensive previous facial injuries when first examined in 1920, including the right side of her mouth and right jaw having been subjected to repeated blows that knocked teeth out and actually fractured or broke bones-this is why in the first photos of her she always was faced to the left, and even hid the right side of her jaw.  These were injuries estimated as having been a few years old by the doctors who examined her, and had obviously healed somewhat, but the effect remained-even as an old lady she still spoke with a handkerchief held up to the right side of her mouth.
 
As to the FS photo: All I can say is that there is no known unretouched version of it-the one posted here has been examined by a number of experts over the years and been shown to have been heavily drawn over, the hairline changed, the lips altered, etc., presumably to heighten the appearance to AA.  If we had an unretouched photo of FS it would be useful, but we don't.
 
Greg King<<

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As far as we know, FS never had this kind of injury.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

lexi4

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Thank you bear for answering my question.

Annie

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My brother doesn't know where my scars are, and I couldn't name his either. There are varying reports of how and when FS/AA got her scars.

And if we are backpeddling to the possibility that she was Anastasia, I'm sure Penny will have a field day, because I am truly out of here ::)

lexi4

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Good point Annie.
My brother doesn't even know what scars I have and we live 15 miles from each other and see a lot of one another. I couldn't tell you his either.
So I doubt that Felix knew either. I was asking if there were photograpsh or documented reports that would pass the evidence rules in a court of law. Apparently there are not other than the word of a co-worker and statements by her brother.

Mgmstl

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Quote
My brother doesn't know where my scars are, and I couldn't name his either. There are varying reports of how and when FS/AA got her scars.

And if we are backpeddling to the possibility that she was Anastasia, I'm sure Penny will have a field day, because I am truly out of here ::)


Take into consideration the fact that in the early 1900's people lived in a close quarters environment.  My grandmother told me a story of her brother who drowned in 1933, when my Dad was about 1year old, and when my great uncle was a boy of about 5 or 6 he fell on an apple corer, or some sort of kitchen appliance and it went right through his knee.   Grandma said he bore a scar on his knee, and I have the last photo ever taken of him, taken about 2 hours before he drowned, and you can see the scar on his knee.  So I think it is relative to time & environment.

I don't think we should be comparing AA's scar's to possible injuries to AN, really that is not a valid comparison, we don't know what scars AN bore, or would have had, as we all know she didn't survive the massacre at Ekaterinburg.

Offline AGRBear

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I did  not bring in Greg's post to restart the AA & GD Anastasia comparisons,   I brought it here to restate AA's scars.  And, as far as the FS family knew,  FS had never suffered such tramantic blows to the face which all the family would have noticed at some time period since it would have changed her looks.  Remember, they had seen her at Christmas just a few months earlier.  

As we often see in old photographs and movies, AA places a handerchief or scarf up toward her bad side and if she were FS probably would have formed the habbit right after the blow and wound to the face had occured.... So, I'd think that someone in the FS family would have noticed and asked what happened if not before than most surely at Christmas time in 1919.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

jaa

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I was asking if there were photograpsh or documented reports that would pass the evidence rules in a court of law. Apparently there are not other than the word of a co-worker and statements by her brother.

The information that she had no scars came from a medical report. Medical records are admissible in court.

Photographs in this case would be inadmissible, since the medical report shows that FS had no scars to photograph.

Most pre-1940 photographs, had they existed, would not be admissible as to evidence of scars (or in this case, the absense of scars on FS). That is because older photographic emulsions were not sensitive to red light, and do not show most scars, freckles, or blemishes. Panchromatic film, which is RGB light sensitive, was used in the film industry and by top professional photographers, but was not widely available at the consumer level until the '40's.

editing to add that I am also troubled by that 1919 Christmas visit. If she had been injured prior to that visit, the family would have noticed. The doctors at Dalldorf described her scars as "old scars."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by jaa »

Offline rgt9w

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Here is the text from the obitiuary of John Manahan in the Daily Progress (local Charlottesville Paper) dated Friday, March 23, 1990.

John Manahan, Husband of "Anastasia", Dead At 70

John E. "Jack" Manahan, the husband of a woman who claimed to be the daughter of the last czar of Russia, died Thursday at the age of 70.

Manahan was a retired history professor who married a woman purported to be the Grand Duchess Anastasia Romanov 21 years ago.  Anastasia died in Charlottesville in 1984.

"In the beginning, I did not know if my wife was who she said she was," Manahan said in an interview with the Daily Progress last year. "But so many claimed to recognize her and my wife was (so) that I gave up any disbeliefs."

Officially, the Soviet Union contended the royal family was murdered in July 1918 by Bolshevik revolutionaries.

Manahan was born in Charlottesville in 1919 and was a scholar at the University of Virginia and Harvard. He specialized in Eastern European history and also was an amateur geneologist.

In recent years, Manahan had conducted hundreds of interviews for books, movies, plays and newspapers about his wife's life.

A funeral service for Manahan will be held at 4:30 p.m. Sunday at Westminster Presbyterian Church.

Offline RealAnastasia

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Thank you for sharing this info with us rgt9w...I agree with Annie. Too sad...This poor man always makes me very sad. His story seems more sad for me than AA's one itself.

RealAnastasia.

Offline rgt9w

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Hello RealAnastasia:

Yes, it is an unfortunate circumstance that Mr. Manahan found himself in at the end of his life. By all reports, he lived in a squalid state much as he and Ms. Manahan did during her lifetime. According to people that knew them, their home on University Circle was constantly in disarray with numerous cats  running about and being incontinent.

lexi4

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Are there any other relatives of John's around? Does anyone know anything about his family?

etonexile

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Sad when old people fall apart...and no one to step in and see that they are living decently.... :-[

Offline RealAnastasia

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Yep...I read how the Manahans lived and it was patetic. I had a great-great Aunty who lived in a very similar way: her house was always untidy, and her cats were everywere. You may just imagine how bad the whole house smelled.  :-[ When I read Mrs. Manahan life and I thought inmediatly at her.

RealAnastasia.

Inquiring_Mind

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I am the only one of my generation to stay put in the area I was born. I have 4  relatives who live nearby. They are all in their late 80's.

One thing I have learned through trial and error and a deep sense of gratitude and love is that they were here first.

They do not like to hand down that baton. They told me what to do and they resist me telling them what is right even when they can be bizarre.

Sometimes I give up. I hold to my guns if I think they will suffer.

But I wonder sometimes what my strong will will be like to cope with if I ever get to be an old age.

Jack was like a double edged sword to AA. Who knows what he would have done if he had the DNA results.


Offline rgt9w

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Hi Lexi4,

According to newspaper accounts of the legal proceedings over John Manahan's estate, he had three cousins who sued. They are named as Alice Nelson and Janice Chamberlain of Ohio, and William Manahan of Canyon Lake, Texas.

Other than their names, I have no other information about Mr. Manahan's family.